Wessex drags and advanced stab drags- defense too weak?

2 0
  • 5 Sep '19

I bought this game on release, and after ~280 hours I'm starting to feel like defense in general, and more advanced drags, like the wessex, cucumber, and certain kinds of stab-drags are, while adding depth to the game, yes, unintuitive. Should these types of swing manipulations be entirely removed?

I don't think so.

But, defending against them feels... odd. Turning 90 degrees to the left or right to block a stab that's become active behind you, understanding how exactly the active frames on a wessex drag work...
It's offputting to a large chunk of players approaching the mid/high level skill (me, myself, hovering at around plat 5/diamond 1, have had considerably less fun eeking towards diamond II, than anywhere else)

more importantly, if a new player sees this becoming standard/more well known, which it will eventually, with the improvement of the general playerbase's skill, and, when ranked becomes more fleshed out, during streams, tournaments, ect, would a new player look at these animations and think: "this looks intended" ?

my main question is; will these animations ever be touched upon? Are they healthy for the games, or accidental remnants of chivalry's meta? should these animations even be touched? I do appreciate this game's immensely high skill ceiling, but some forms of swing manipulation just don't look nearly as smooth as others

Knight 936 950
  • 2
  • 5 Sep '19

Inb4 "learn to read drags"

I agree though. On a high skill ceiling feints, morphs and chambers do pretty much nothing, so you need to rely on the weirdest drags. The higher the skill ceiling, the more stupid it looks. Just like in chivalry.
The problem is that the whole game is based on reactions, much less on aiming or footwork. So if you can hard read all basic attacks and all basic drags, there is nothing else you can do really except to try to make your drags look extra weird.

Duke 553 939
  • 5 Sep '19

Make mordhau a team game already and solve all of this

Knight 1269 3810
  • 1
  • 5 Sep '19

The game is already lacking in offensive variety. These things require practice to pull off and have a lot of counterplay. Waterfalls work best in certains situations, they are a good counter to people that run into your attack, as they look to the side instead of to your face, leaving their back exposed. It's not a drag that you can just spam hoping it will be unblockable. On the defending side, once you know it well, you can see it coming depending on the player that's doing it, and follow the weapon a bit. You can also counter it hard with footwork, forcing a miss, while chambering to have a safety net. This counterplay makes high level play more interesting, and having these drags means that players can have slightly more varying playstyles.

Removing them would mean that the meta would be even less varied, where it'll mostly just be accel/delay mixups and some morphs and feints that you do by pressing a button.

Wessexes are insanely hard to do consistently and not really viable. If by wessex you mean horizontal sidedrag. People use the term for anything these days.

And I don't know what the beef is with sidestabs. Should you not be asked to look at a weapon to parry it? They're incredibly easy to see coming and the parrybox is ridiculously lenient with direction.

Regarding how they look, well

Honestly that looks great to me. With the war axe, because of its double head it looks like he just did a fake cut and then a false-edge cut coming back.

And let's see frisedrags:

Ye they look wonky but usually you can see them coming, and in all of those clips they were quite easy to see. In the second clip you can see how easy it is to defend against it if you see it coming, and that's just by moving your parry, not any of the other counterplays you can use, like sprinting into it to easily force a miss.

I'm well aware that in certain cases they can be very deceiving, looking like they completely missed but still hit you, as if it was a network issue, but are you gonna tell me that accels/delay drags don't look really stupid sometimes? Look at the second video, last clip. The first drag doesn't look that much more stupid than the second one. All drags can look stupid, but it doesn't take much time before you learn about them and understand why you get hit by them. I do sidedrags very often, and mid-tier players always ask me what the hell happened. The vast majority of them understand it when explained and ask me to teach them how to do it. Standing still letting them practice them with me and teaching them how to do them is beautiful, and it's what makes the game unique; the variety, the freedom of expression, and the complexity that arises from a very simple combat scheme. Removing that would be terrible.

TL;DR timing drags look stupid too but removing them would be detrimental to gameplay and make the meta even more boring

166 65
  • 5 Sep '19

... omg, what a cheap shiz

2 0
  • 6 Sep '19

It's not that I want drags like this to be removed, not at all, it's more that I think that the animations need work to be less... i'm not sure what the word would be- desynced? It's more of a presentation issue to me, than an outright balance issue. Sidestabs can be read, and look slightly wonky, waterfalls and side-drags can be read, but look even more wonky; the main point of my question was that will these mechanics be fine-tuned in the future, to be more consistent?

I love the inclusion of advanced drag mechanics, I just hope for some kind of animation touchup in the future so it looks more like a cool, difficult technique, rather than network desync.

Knight 1269 3810
  • 6 Sep '19

There is no animation for sidedrags. You're using the regular attack animations. There is nothing to do about their looks, except for extremely complex and convolluted solutions that would take insane amounts of development time just to make them look good. Keep in mind that the vast majority of players will never see sidedrags in play.