Mordhau

Lets face it, Mordhau is dying and we all know why

58 126
  • 15 Aug
 Quadsword

@ToLazy4Name said:

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:

@Pred said:

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:
i still really like the mechanics (mostly because i've never played a "competitive" first person slasher before) but yeah it's still a very very "indie" game and all the problems i had with it at the start turned out to be universally complained about by everyone else later instead of it going away with playtime (just kick shields lol!), which confirms my theory that the really really good beta players are just insanely stockholm syndromed.

the vast majority of alpha players thought shields were shit and have always been shit lmao what are you on about

what da fuck. why didn't they change it then. isn't that the point of an alpha. lol

Every big problem in this game you can think of now, was beaten to death in alpha - shields, animations, instas, frontline, horses, firepots, spawnblocking, you name it. They remained like that because of devs decisions to keep them in such state, not because nobody had noticed for year and a half in alpha.

huh. from my understanding there was a secret discord full of alpha testers that the devs exclusively listened to, but apparently they just Fuckin Ignored That Too

No, there's the private feedback channel on the discord where people the devs think know the game well enough can discuss things in a focused environment, but it's not like the devs actually just listened to them. The devs (or at least the original team) are all veterans of this little niche genre and are effectively on the same level as the comp players, and they do what they want.

Ah... so these devs have a history of not giving a fuck about their players. Cool.

1337 1390

@ToLazy4Name said:

@esturias said:

@SWSeriousMike said:
That whole issue was just ridiculous.

Can't you just sum it up in a few lines? No interest watching that kind of video...

Rick cheated, pretended not to cheat, got banned.

It's even more ridiculous.

Rick used a bugged ini setting that allowed him to perform attacks that couldn't be parried ('insiders' is the colloquial term if I'm not mistaken). An ini setting - just a line in a text file. That's a really low bar. Only one step away from "Cheating: On/Off" in the game settings.

He used that for weeks and apparently nobody noticed. Because it's always a git gud issue with everything. He even used it in a tournament. If he hadn't admitted to it it could probably have gone on for longer.

Some competitive peeps allegedly even wanted to get taught how to do the unparryable attacks. Because all is fair in love and Mordhau.

When he admitted it he handled it in a very questionable way.

In the end he was banned although I'm not sure whether he used that exploit on an official server. That makes it questionable whether the ban was even justified. As always with these matters it was handled in the most intransparent way possible.

Afterwards everything was business as usual. Nobody cared about how utterly ridiculous that was.

Edit: One more thing. The exploit just allowed him to get closer to opponents. Because the parry system is flawed and it is required that people don't stand too close to each other. It appears that this distance bubble is the only thing that's keeping insiders a comparatively rare occurrence.

717 587

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@esturias said:

@SWSeriousMike said:
That whole issue was just ridiculous.

Can't you just sum it up in a few lines? No interest watching that kind of video...

Rick cheated, pretended not to cheat, got banned.

It's even more ridiculous.

Rick used a bugged ini setting that allowed him to perform attacks that couldn't be parried ('insiders' is the colloquial term if I'm not mistaken). An ini setting - just a line in a text file. That's a really low bar. Only one step away from "Cheating: On/Off" in the game settings.

He used that for weeks and apparently nobody noticed. Because it's always a git gud issue with everything. He even used it in a tournament. If he hadn't admitted to it it could probably have gone on for longer.

Some competitive peeps allegedly even wanted to get taught how to do the unparryable attacks. Because all is fair in love and Mordhau.

When he admitted it he handled it in a very questionable way.

In the end he was banned although I'm not sure whether he used that exploit on an official server. That makes it questionable whether the ban was even justified. As always with these matters it was handled in the most intransparent way possible.

Afterwards everything was business as usual. Nobody cared about how utterly ridiculous that was.

the best part is that everyone is still friends with rick cause they're just so used to sociopaths lol

Knight 7573 13872
  • 15 Aug
 ToLazy4Name

@SWSeriousMike said:
In the end he was banned although I'm not sure whether he used that exploit on an official server. That makes it questionable whether the ban was even justified. As always with these matters it was handled in the most intransparent way possible.

He was banned from competitive for cheating, and then he was later game banned for admitting to using it in the tournament.

6 1
  • 15 Aug
 -ß-darku

And yet the only answer we get is "we are being communicative! just look at the post we made last month and no further comments since!"

It's like if they just ignore everyone the games problems go away and they don't have to work harder than they are used to

I've said this in Discord but a simple solution to a long term problem would be to contract third party developers willing to work on the game for money and adapt them with the current system in place so they can develop on it. If it's too much work for the small team, use the money gained to upscale the project and contract more people.

1337 1390

@ToLazy4Name said:
He was banned from competitive for cheating, and then he was later game banned for admitting to using it in the tournament.

Did the tournament take place on official servers?

Knight 7573 13872
  • 15 Aug
 ToLazy4Name

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
He was banned from competitive for cheating, and then he was later game banned for admitting to using it in the tournament.

Did the tournament take place on official servers?

I don't think so, but it was sanctioned by Triternion and I believe it had a prize pool.

Knight 5096 6834

Well, even when triternion's bad moderation episodes are no secret for any comunity veteran, i have to agree that a cheater is a cheater, if the tournament had any drop of oficiality, being organized by triternion and/or putting the money for a prize pool, they have the right to punish any cheating participant. Which punishment is up for debate but something has to be done.
Hm, we are getting off topic lol.

98 46
  • 15 Aug
 CarnifeX

@Humble Staff said:
Rick issue? Wtf?

"Stouty: did you use it in the tournament ?
Rick: Uhhhhh. I don’t really remember."

yt-comment... says anything i have to know about it, problably a cheater got caught and denies it, nothin more, nothin less...
but whatever, its absolutly not important for this topic, in my opinion - its problably not even important to discuss generally.

B2T: i dont think the update will change anything, and i also dont think, many players will be happy with the update.

Knight 693 1581
  • 6
  • 15 Aug
 das

Tournament-only or not, it would be an even bigger PR shitstorm if he was allowed to pub lol. Good official riddance of him I say, even if he technically can still play on a new account anonymously.

Chiv 2 looking better and better lads

Chivalry 2's art direction (though not necessarily graphic fidelity) looks nice. But everything else surrounding Chivalry 2 still looks way worse. If you think Triternion's bad, well, Torn Banner is doing almost everything else worse lol. What they've shown (and refuse to show) indicates an even huger disconnect and a lack of learning from the past, whether it's the weird choppy animations shown in what's supposed to be their huge big hype reveal or everything they refuse to comment about. "We won't show you or talk about anything of substance, but please believe our outrageous claim that this will be the most hype melee game ever!" The same arrogance preceded Diablo 3's launch, Lawbreakers, Artifact. Luckily for Blizzard, they sold so many copies straight out of the gate (because... pre-2010's Blizzard) that it was a commercial success and they were able to salvage the situation later on. If you think Triternion is arrogant... TBS is on another level.

But back on topic.

To be honest I'm not even sure we can give them props on this aspect of the game's development. Most of the hard work involved in the conception of a melee system was done by the foundations of the system Torn Banner had already created.

Fair point. I was mostly referring to the meticulous coding behind the mechanics. The melee design itself is indeed imperfect in some regards.

TO confirmed to not exist in the first place during alpha/development was tolerated by us because this mysterious Frontline mode absent from alpha was supposed to be superior. The criticisms they gave of TO were fair and correct, which were centered around the fact that it is not the best mode for competitive play or spectatorship. Yet, that is completely irrelevant for public play, and it's not as if we've got a proper competitive mode now lol - now we're lacking both a good casual and comp mode. Release players often say "I get the feeling that the maps were just made willy-nilly and then objectives slapped on last minute as an afterthought". Well... we did get to see Grad being developed in just that manner. Funny that it ended up being the best FL map though.

What really worried me is when one of the devs mentioned that the objectives in TO... well, "they're basically just fancy circles you stand in to fight". So by that logic, the experience of standing in literal circles to fight in Frontline will be the same, he predicted. This really highlighted a disconnect from players to me, that the video portion of video games which is so crucial to immersing players is not being taken into consideration. Frontline was revealed in beta and lacked penultimate objectives (it was just circles until the finale). Objectives were added due to criticism, but their origin as an afterthought is obvious: they don't mesh well with the gamemode itself, the risk/reward is skewed because you are punished for pushing hard rather than turtling the tickets out, and the difference in difficulty was pretty harsh (Taiga barrels vs barricades, Camp bomb towers vs cart, etc.), and they don't do their job of galvanizing players into swarming or working as a team due to a combination of aforementioned FL problems + lack of storytelling.

You know what that reminded me of? Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. The game didn't have the fucking X-Men. As a response to the shitstorm from fans that this decision ensued, a dev responded with: 'If you were to actually think about it, these characters are just functions. They're just doing things. Magneto, case and point, is a favorite because he has eight-way dash and he's really fast, right? Well guess what, Nova can do the same thing, Captain Marvel can do the same thing. Ultron can do the same thing.' Dude, we want to play as fucking Cyclops just like we were able to in MvC and MvC2! We want to play as fucking Magneto because, well, he's fucking Magneto! Likewise, I want to pillage towns and raid peasants, siege castles as a knight, and slay the king! I don't want to play as some bootleg Nontondo characters even if they are "the same function", I want to play as Fox McCloud and Mario!

250px-Kidd-square

The interesting thing about MvC:Infinite is that it's often lauded as having excellent core game mechanics, but the bad graphics, art direction, and the really poor decision to omit a huge part of why people loved the franchise in the first place (X-Men characters) had the game end up as a flop. Though not a one-to-one analogue, I do see a similar thing with Mordhau where the devs didn't understand why TO was beloved in the first place: story, immersion, clear objectives and flow, attack/defend dynamics.

What I'm hoping these criticisms are NOT being taken as is this: "wow the devs won't listen to me in #private_feedback". You'll see that my criticisms aren't generally grounded in the melee mechanics (the most often talked about topic in the channel) or weapon balance but rather the more macro aspects and decision making/direction of the game. And to their credit, private_feedback does have people identifying the correct problems, but often offering pretty bad solutions in return. It's not that devs have the final say that's troubling, it's what they're not budging on and the reasons provided that are worrisome.

"Will good TO maps shut you up?"

Well, there's still other big things to address: BR, Horde, health regen, a proper competitive mode, the points system, the perks system, melee mechanics, etc. And this isn't addressing the lack of communication.

717 587

@das said:
And to their credit, private_feedback does have people identifying the correct problems, but often offering pretty bad solutions in return. It's not that devs have the final say that's troubling, it's what they're not budging on and the reasons provided that are worrisome.

the trick to feedback/critique is to use it as a resource to understand your game better instead of actually listening to the solutions (which are usually horrible cause players aren't game designers)

even if they're interpreting the game wrong u need to understand how they got to that interpretation

113 63

The game succeed financially, why would you expect them to carry on?

It's now a sinking ship.

2 8
  • 15 Aug
 Oadriax

We all know why its dying

Patchie4.jpg

Duke 5473 13074
  • 1
  • 15 Aug
 Jax — Community Manager

The update will have everything mentioned in that dev update post + a lot of general improvements to the combat, crossroads should be rebalanced, weapon changes, shield changes, and some more features. It will be a good update.

EDIT: Wasn't really thinking too hard when I wrote this, maps may or may not be included, and SDK is a long way out. The next update is focused around ranked primarily, but work is being done to get the rest of what's been talked about in that update ready for some point in the future. Sorry for any misinformation.

717 587

@Jax said:
The update will have everything mentioned in that dev update post + a lot of general improvements to the combat, crossroads should be rebalanced, weapon changes, shield changes, and some more features. It will be a good update.

man i hope so. don't rush it if you guys are going to update huge chunks of the game at once though instead of doing smaller updates, it'd suck big time if something breaks and we have to wait another couple months for a big ass update

58 126
  • 15 Aug
 Quadsword

@Jax said:
The update will have everything mentioned in that dev update post + a lot of general improvements to the combat, crossroads should be rebalanced, weapon changes, shield changes, and some more features. It will be a good update.

Too little too late. US region is dead because of your potato servers.

83 51
  • 15 Aug
 Budd

Overall I really like what das said, very very well said.

But no one really hates the devs, they literally didnt expect it to blow up this much.

Fucking 1 million copies for a 10 team indie game like what the hell, they're under so much stress from the community.. or whats left of it as of right now, not to add the media straight up bullying them for being historically accurate.

Its all just not good.

No ones being dramatic, if you think that people being concerned for a game that they love and want to see get better is being dramatic than please rethink what dramatic truly is.

Not to add but the only people right now that know about mordhau's playerbase literally eating shit and dying is people like us, big fans of the game. Honestly we need someone with a loud enough voice to address this issue.

83 51
  • 15 Aug
 Budd

@Oadriax said:
We all know why its dying

Patchie4.jpg

Hell yeah

83 51
  • 15 Aug
 Budd

@Jax said:
The update will have everything mentioned in that dev update post + a lot of general improvements to the combat, crossroads should be rebalanced, weapon changes, shield changes, and some more features. It will be a good update.

Good to hear jax, thank you for the info. Hey do you have any plans on releasing a road map maybe in the future?

Duke 544 898
  • 16 Aug
 Goatie

From what I've seen from Chivalry 2 it looks 'choppy' because they want everything more readable instead of Mordhaus weird fucking neutral oversmoothed animations that are hard to read and makes the meta boring. Replacing that depth with more attack options. They also said they want a focus on 1vX which coming from Mordhau would be a breath of fresh air. Chivalry 2 may not be a great competitive game but we all know it will be more FUN then Mordhau in a hop on and play aspect. Even Mirage was more fun and had more soul it just had no players and wasn't expansive enough to beat Chivalry. I disliked TBs decisions as much as any other chivalry player but people pointing at animations that look fine to me is weak. I have more hope for Chivalry 2 then I do Mordhau at the moment.

Oh and off subject those shield changes better be actual shield changes and not just tiny kick range adjustments and shit.