Mordhau

Making Dodge viable for high level

Conscript 186 472
  • 5
  • 13 Aug
 Shovonem

Dodge barely receied any tweaks/ adjustments ever since they were added and still remains underused in competitive. Here's some suggestion I have to make it more viable and less annoying:

  1. Reduce perk cost to 2: Armor is arguably the most important point investment in the game. The reason why people don't use Dodge is because sacrificing 4 points to put less armor is simply not worth it.

  2. Add considerable cooldown between dodges: currently people can spam Dodge and slide away like magic carpet.

  3. Add a Dodge lockout after being parried/chambered so it's impossible to dodge while the enemy riposte lasts/ chamber morph lasts. It is there so dodge don't give free read.

  4. Add a Dodge lockout during parry so people don't early parry feint and dodge at the same time to avoid drags/ get a double parry (getting double parry with dodge is actually surprisingly easy). Which means it's not possible to parry and dodge at the same time.

  5. Add lockout after a misparry like the Comp mod man at arms (Chivalry). In comp mod, if man at arms parry window is over(after falling for feint), there would be a dodge lockout so they can't escape the punish.

  6. Add dodge lockout after being hit so it's not possible to escape a combo.

  7. Please make a distinctive and better dodge animation.

  8. Reduce dodge stamina cost to 5/7.

The idea behind the dodge 'nerfs' and reduction of point cost is so that dodge is a circumstantial tactic for spacing/occasional read (especially in team fight) instead of a sliding away playstyle. The reason why man at arms remained very cheesy and annoying in Chivalry is because the class heavily relied on dodges and it was very powerful. Dodges dictating a playstyle simply breaks the combat. Lockouts are there so dodge do not remove read/ break the flow of combat and point cost is reduced so it's a good investment. That way it can be incorporated with Mordhau.

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I have Dodge on several of my light load outs but I never use it. Just a waste of stamina and it's more like a crutch for FL noobs than a useful competitive perk. Using it in a real duel is just blowing off stamina.

I can dodge with normal footwork and light armor speed boost, why am I spending 4 points on Dodge? I forget I even have it on my light load outs.

Spear and dodge isn't particularly good but its definitely obnoxious since you can dodge after misparry or getting parried and spam poke. These suggested nerfs would make Dodge less of a noob crutch or obnoxious fluke and more of a spacing tactic for armored and unarmored players alike that doesn't break combat. Have a like.

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  • 22 Aug
 TrustyWays

Yeah dodges are useless atm, no reason to use them

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  • 28 Aug
 Bluhman

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I have Dodge on several of my light load outs but I never use it. Just a waste of stamina and it's more like a crutch for FL noobs than a useful competitive perk. Using it in a real duel is just blowing off stamina.

I can dodge with normal footwork and light armor speed boost, why am I spending 4 points on Dodge? I forget I even have it on my light load outs.

Spear and dodge isn't particularly good but its definitely obnoxious since you can dodge after misparry or getting parried and spam poke. These suggested nerfs would make Dodge less of a noob crutch or obnoxious fluke and more of a spacing tactic for armored and unarmored players alike that doesn't break combat. Have a like.

Yeah it also doesn't really match the vision of a 'dodgy' kind of build either. The current implementation of it focuses on kiting which is why it goes along with spear, but then try and leverage it with daggers, falchions, short sword, or basically any other higher-speed weapon that would be key for punishing through a successful dodge and the reasons as to why to even use the perk are thrown out the window. That also seems to be a big factor as to why two-handed high-cost weapons are so heavily focused on in the meta.

I'm not keen on the point decrease, I'd imagine that's going to introduce a big possibility of heavy-armor builds using light weapons. I could slap that on in place of Flesh Wound on my knight build without a second thought: I don't plan on dying any time soon and having some flexibility to add to my feints with a backstep is going to make fighting me all the more troublesome. Don't know how much the dodge mechanics realistically stack or interact with the way movement speed works however.

The rest with making its timing a bit less spammable is solid otherwise. One thing I do like:

Please make a distinctive and better dodge animation.

This'd be key to making Dodge work really well especially in a game based heavily on exact hitboxes (what you see is what you get). Having Dodge provide a way for the player to drastically shift that hitbox, without making huge distance between them and their target, would be huge I'd say.
I'd say add a bit extra, and adjustments, such as:

  • Keep the 4-point cost
  • Duck and Jumps are augmented with unique animations: Duck has a split-second at its start where you dip much lower than usual, while the Jump causes you to lift your legs much further off the ground. Timing on these is similar to chambers; in the case of the jump, it only compresses the user's hitbox further, doesn't actually make them jump higher. This one's real important I feel because usually a normal duck or jump isn't going to do well to avoid an incoming attack, as it's not that big of an adjustment the user needs to make to still hit you.
  • Crouch+Sprint initiates a quick step in the direction you're moving (including forward) with a fast low step that rises into standing position. Quick approach, but still readable: there's no magic bullet for phasing through swords here, but would help a lot with closing in with light weapons.
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Devs don't know how to balance perks, don't know how to nerf op perks, don't know how to make useless perks useful, and arbitrarily nerf perks that did not need a nerf.

This is double sad considering we should have had like 15 more perks by now, but if they can't even balance the ones we have just forget about that.