Mordhau

Starting to be reminded of Chivalry

86 42
  • 1 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

I bought Chivalry when it first came out and LOVED IT. However, as a lot of us know, overtime, eventually the exploits and abuse of the mechanics within the game became wide known, and "ballerinas" took over. Long gone were the semi-realistic, cool looking, and enjoyable sword fights.

Instead, it was everyone doing overheads, while facing the opposite way to catch opponents at the VERY start of their swings, running away from an opponent, starting a swing, only to turn back at the last possible second to make it count as a hit.

Once Chivalry fell into that cesspool of what I called "mechanic abuse", I uninstalled. The game was no longer about skill, but who could "break" the mechanics the best.

I had long been looking for a semi-realistic sword fighting game after that. Tried mount and Blade, but it reminded me of ARMA in terms of the clunkiness associated with it. Objectively good game, but not something I could quite get into. I tried For Honor, but it was a little too arcadeish for my tastes.
Then I hear about Mordhau (WAYYY back when it was only an idea, not even Alpha was up) and was watching the devs talk about wanting to make a "semi realistic" sword fighting game. (hence the ideas of Blades being comparatively weak vs plate, and hammers strong, being able to switch grips to engage different types of opponents, etc)
Loved the idea, loved the initial footage.
It looked like the Good of Chivalry, with the bad removed, and a ton more.

HOWEVER present day, I have to say, im finding more and more "ballerinas" in servers. Players hopping up and down, and contorting their bodies in impossible ways to make impossible swings do way more damage than they deserve, and the fun is starting to die fast.

I used to play Frontline, but the total lack of team balancing makes it too much of a crapshoot as to whether you will be completely rolled over, or if you will have zero challenge at all.
And ive always enjoyed Duels in any fighting game, where you can get good at the finer aspects of the mechanics, and try to test your skills without being stabbed in the back, hit by a catapult, or ran over by a horse.

I REALLY hope the devs will do SOMETHING to bring players back to semi-realistic behavior to get to the top of leaderboards, instead of who can contort their bodies the weirdest.

Knight 7768 14315
  • 1 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

you already have a thread about this

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/19263/extreme-drags-need-a-nerf

stop spamming

111 97
  • 1 Aug '19
 BOBOLOJOE

I agree with the OP. I don't mind doing odd things to catch an opponent out. Any good fighter will learn this trick.
My problem is the unrealistc.

people with high mouse sensitivity spinning around on the spot at a million miles per hour. its a lol, but not realistic.

I would prefer a more momentum based physics or controls.

so you can only spin around so fast, can only bend your torso so fast.

this would stop some ballerinas i think.

Knight 7768 14315
  • 1 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

@BOBOLOJOE said:
people with high mouse sensitivity spinning around on the spot at a million miles per hour. its a lol, but not realistic.

If you mean while swinging, you're wrong. Your sensitivity is capped while attacking.

If you mean while not swinging, why is this an issue? You want to limit sensitivity in general? I'm going to assume you're not so stupid as to actually be thinking this.

404 607
  • 1
  • 2 Aug '19
 smug

Well yeah this game is Chivalry 2.

Most of the mechanics are Chiv mechanics specifically the foundational ones.

What did you expect?

111 97
  • 2 Aug '19
 BOBOLOJOE

@ToLazy4Name said:

@BOBOLOJOE said:
people with high mouse sensitivity spinning around on the spot at a million miles per hour. its a lol, but not realistic.

If you mean while swinging, you're wrong. Your sensitivity is capped while attacking.

If you mean while not swinging, why is this an issue? You want to limit sensitivity in general? I'm going to assume you're not so stupid as to actually be thinking this.

I mean while not swinging. Michael Jackson and a figure skater can spin around on the spot at really high speeds but in Mordhau it looks silly.
What I am meaning is that like for example tapping very fast the crouch button, and spinning your character around on the spot really fast, say, making long swipes with your mouse across your mouse pad to make your character do 10, 360 degree spins in .5 of a second is silly.

I don't want to limit sensitivity, i want to limit how fast your character can do these actions, to better represent how a person could do it in real life.

it's not game braking and no one is doing this to exploit the mechanics. it's just an immersion thing.

even very fast looking up and down. it just needs to be slowed down so that its at a real person speed not computer character speed.
you feelin me bro?

Knight 7768 14315
  • 2 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

no i'm not feeling you and i'm leaving this thread because you have upset me and ruined my day

Duke 553 939
  • 2 Aug '19
 Goatie

If they make changes to feints and punishing them is more consistent i think people who play like tards will be destroyed easier instead of bobbing up and down and gambling so the problem should sort itself out eventually. Swing manipulation itself can always be fine tuned, or at least i hope.

111 97
  • 1
  • 2 Aug '19
 BOBOLOJOE

in the game, with a flick of my wrist, i can turn my character 180 or 360 in like .1 a second.

in reality it's more like .5 a second

can't find a video example but in this clip the squats are too fast. funny but not realistic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsN9efR6miI
again turning your body, on the spot, 180 or 360 or 50million degrees is so fast it's blurry and I think immersion would be improved if there was a max speed you could move your body this way.

the only time in combat i think that it's a bad, and ive done this before, you hear somoene come up behind you and swing, so you can almost instantly turn around and parry, then turn back around and carry on forwards all seemingly within a split second

Knight 76 162
  • 2 Aug '19
 ArmedSpartan

@BOBOLOJOE said:
in the game, with a flick of my wrist, i can turn my character 180 or 360 in like .1 a second.

in reality it's more like .5 a second

can't find a video example but in this clip the squats are too fast. funny but not realistic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsN9efR6miI
again turning your body, on the spot, 180 or 360 or 50million degrees is so fast it's blurry and I think immersion would be improved if there was a max speed you could move your body this way.

the only time in combat i think that it's a bad, and ive done this before, you hear somoene come up behind you and swing, so you can almost instantly turn around and parry, then turn back around and carry on forwards all seemingly within a split second

Mordhau isn't meant to portray Historical European Martial arts. Nor is it a Medieval Mil-sim game, It's supposed to be fun, and skillful, without being fully realistic. If you want a game like this, play KCD.

67 40
  • 2 Aug '19
 Kuro1n

Badass_ben? More like Bitchass_ben.

9 7
  • 1
  • 2 Aug '19
 Egossi

I dont see how you reached to the conclusion that any of the "mechanic exploits" are anywhere near as bad as chivalry by any margin. You almost make it sound like you havent actually played one of the games, because in mordhau it is very possible to see the delayed or boosted attacks coming unless you're bad at the game, whereas it was almost impossible to counter it in chivalry most of the time unless you spent every single day playing it, and it looked way less realistic than anything in mordhau

I suggest spending some time in duels that have "noob friendly" in their titles, if you can get your reaction time higher it wont seem as game breaking to you as it does now I'm sure, because if what you're asking for is a game where you cant accelerate or delay your attacks and it's only the same 3 mechanics all the time where 2 opponents just directly face eachother all the time then you're asking for a boring game

367 341
  • 2 Aug '19
 Peacerer

@Egossi said:then you're asking for a boring game

Incase you haven't noticed yet. Mordhau is a boring game. Hence it has extremely bad retention rate.

239 289
  • 2 Aug '19
 idiotgod

@Peacerer said:

@Egossi said:then you're asking for a boring game

Incase you haven't noticed yet. Mordhau is a boring game. Hence it has extremely bad retention rate.

Nah man, listen to the smart people on the forum. Losing 50% of the remaining playerbase every month in a multiplayer only game is a success... cause it's an indie game I guess? So failure = success

Sellsword 792 2346
  • 2 Aug '19
 Goof

You have a turncap while attacking, plus after so far the attack only whiffs. So ballerinas really aren't a thing here.

You can spin as fast as you want to between attacks, but if you can't keep yourself from panicking when you see someone do a quick spin before attacking - that's your problem.

TLDR - Git gud.

86 42
  • 2 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@Goof said:
You have a turncap while attacking, plus after so far the attack only whiffs. So ballerinas really aren't a thing here.

You can spin as fast as you want to between attacks, but if you can't keep yourself from panicking when you see someone do a quick spin before attacking - that's your problem.

TLDR - Git gud.

Kinda missing the point
For example, ran into this today in Duels
A player with a Maul would overhead feint, BUT< he would aggressively look straight down, causing the tip of the weapon to come down on me (exactly like a swing), except it was a feint. Id parry, and then inevitably get hit.

Not sure how one would fix that, but you shouldn't be able to move a weapon such that its arc is identical to a real swing, only to be a feint.

86 42
  • 2 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ArmedSpartan said:

@BOBOLOJOE said:
in the game, with a flick of my wrist, i can turn my character 180 or 360 in like .1 a second.

in reality it's more like .5 a second

can't find a video example but in this clip the squats are too fast. funny but not realistic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsN9efR6miI
again turning your body, on the spot, 180 or 360 or 50million degrees is so fast it's blurry and I think immersion would be improved if there was a max speed you could move your body this way.

the only time in combat i think that it's a bad, and ive done this before, you hear somoene come up behind you and swing, so you can almost instantly turn around and parry, then turn back around and carry on forwards all seemingly within a split second

Mordhau isn't meant to portray Historical European Martial arts. Nor is it a Medieval Mil-sim game, It's supposed to be fun, and skillful, without being fully realistic. If you want a game like this, play KCD.

I am curious what KCD is
But anyways, I remember when the game was FIRST announced, before alpha or anything, I was listening to the devs talk about wanting to make a semi-realistic sword fighting game. That's what got my attention, and what I loved about early Chivalry release was it felt like a reasonably realistic sword fighting game, without being annoyingly so. But when you have these players who contort their bodies to make their weapons move in a blatant defiance of physics, it really pulls me out of the game.

It would be like a shooter with bullet travel time, except you could make your bullet stop mid air, and resume when you wanted. It would make gunfights just not make sense, as some swordfights do in this game.

Knight 7768 14315
  • 2 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

@Badass_Ben said:

@Goof said:
You have a turncap while attacking, plus after so far the attack only whiffs. So ballerinas really aren't a thing here.

You can spin as fast as you want to between attacks, but if you can't keep yourself from panicking when you see someone do a quick spin before attacking - that's your problem.

TLDR - Git gud.

Kinda missing the point
For example, ran into this today in Duels
A player with a Maul would overhead feint, BUT< he would aggressively look straight down, causing the tip of the weapon to come down on me (exactly like a swing), except it was a feint. Id parry, and then inevitably get hit.

Not sure how one would fix that, but you shouldn't be able to move a weapon such that its arc is identical to a real swing, only to be a feint.

you're complaining about basic game mechanics

please stop

21 9
  • 2 Aug '19
 qbmax

Mordhau isn't nearly as bad as Chivalry was with this sort of stuff but I do still believe that it's an intrinsic issue with higher-level play as a whole. I guess I can't fault people for playing optimally but the fact that weapons like the Eveningstar are literally banned in some competitive tournaments is REALLY telling of what it's like. More than a couple of weapons, when combined with advanced tech like jpeg accels and wrist drags, are stupid strong and almost certainly need nerfs. While people spazzing out BEFORE actually attacking (and thus being turncapped) does look stupid, it's pretty easily counterable imo because the person spinning super fast basically has no vision of you so you can gamble or even sprint up to them and kick while they're trying to throw you off.

Triternion has said that they're looking into swing manipulation as well in their recent blog post.

"We’re also looking into making swing manipulation look better overall without compromising the skill of the game, and adjusting a few weapons turn caps which are a bit too extreme at the moment (For example, Spear in short grip), making the game a bit more grounded. There will be many more adjustments and improvements, including Javelins among other things, to help fine-tune the already amazing combat."

Adjustment's I'd personally like to see are improvements to how swing manipulation looks as a whole. Even in its current state, it's miles better then what Chivalrys was but I still feel that a lot of higher-level techs when used properly push the game that much closer to Chivalry. Crouching definitely needs some fixes right now as well, I've seen more then a couple of clips of people just tapping their crouch button and instantly avoiding hits.

I still have high hopes for how higher level Mordhau play will look in comp but I'm going to be sorely dissapointed in this new patch if there's little to no weapon balancing done.

21 9
  • 1
  • 2 Aug '19
 qbmax

edit: thank you for making me post the same thing twice mordhau forums