Mordhau

EXTREME drags need a nerf

86 42
  • 1 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

But then the question is, how do you even parry extreme drags if you have no reference, if any swing can seemingly stop mid swing, only to instantly resume for max damage.

I never use extreme dragging, and only the occasional feint and I have zero issue on getting hits on my opponents. Consistent hits? No, but I can make a fight dynamic enough without dragging to surprise someone to allow a hit to land.

But like these clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jObal2thYc
(dude looks straight at the ground as he starts the overhead, so instead of seeing any windup, I just immediately take full damage and never getting a chance to parry)

(sword stops midair, taking away any momentum making it what SHOULD be an ineffective strike. how the fuck am I supposed to read that?)

Its not skill to do the above, its mechanic abuse as the opponent never has a chance to counter it.
I can deal with feints well enough, even morphs, by tracking the opponent's weapon tip and waiting till the last second to parry, but the above, you literally have no ability to counter.

Knight 7768 14315
  • 1 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

You need to counter by going for a chamber attempt and immediately cftp if he drags it. Also, stop basing your balance opinions on duels.

86 42
  • 1 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
You need to counter by going for a chamber attempt and immediately cftp if he drags it. Also, stop basing your balance opinions on duels.

In the second clip, you can see that I DO go for a chamber
I don't know what CFTP means though.

Duels is where the finesse of the melee system comes out.
Frontline/Team modes are just a clusterfudge and THEY should not be used for balance.
Besides, my suggested changes wouldn't really impact any team mode significantly.

Knight 7768 14315
  • 1
  • 1 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

cftp means combo feint to parry, in that clip you just committed to a failed chamber instead of feinting out of it into a parry

Edit: so I suppose it'd just be ftp in this case

404 607
  • 5
  • 1 Aug '19
 smug

That overhead in your video is easy to parry, and that drag isn't even one of the worst ones. In the second clip the guy simply panic parried.

No offense lol.

However in the case of that overhead he telegraphed the accel HARD, and if that was a skilled player it would actually be neigh impossible to differentiate that accel from a riposte footdrag, the window for you to actually read the difference is too small combined with latency.

Duels is where the finesse of the melee system comes out.
Frontline/Team modes are just a clusterfudge and THEY should not be used for balance.

Dueling is worse than team modes, and I say that as someone who has primarily enjoyed a lot of 1v1 games.

717 605

yah 3 v 3 seems to be the most interesting/balanced utilization of the combat mechanics imo

Duke 2266 4010
  • 3 Aug '19
 Huggles

@Badass_Ben said:
But then the question is, how do you even parry extreme drags if you have no reference, if any swing can seemingly stop mid swing, only to instantly resume for max damage.

I never use extreme dragging, and only the occasional feint and I have zero issue on getting hits on my opponents. Consistent hits? No, but I can make a fight dynamic enough without dragging to surprise someone to allow a hit to land.

But like these clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jObal2thYc
(dude looks straight at the ground as he starts the overhead, so instead of seeing any windup, I just immediately take full damage and never getting a chance to parry)

(sword stops midair, taking away any momentum making it what SHOULD be an ineffective strike. how the fuck am I supposed to read that?)

Its not skill to do the above, its mechanic abuse as the opponent never has a chance to counter it.
I can deal with feints well enough, even morphs, by tracking the opponent's weapon tip and waiting till the last second to parry, but the above, you literally have no ability to counter.

You use footwork to position yourself either at the beginning of the attack so you can parry it in early release or force a miss, or you position yourself away from the attack so you can parry/chamber as late as possible.

It is very skillful to position, predict, and pressure to land and avoid hits using swing manipulation and mind games.

80 117
  • 3 Aug '19
 PinkerStinklage

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the person in the clip is holding off on accelerating or dragging their attack until the last possible second. It's a tricky way of making what your doing. Like lazy mentioned, the only real way of countering it reliably is good footwork and like someone said clambering into ftp.

247 149
  • 3 Aug '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

how about introducing more forms of flinching.
personally i think its fucking retarded that a glancing blow makes my character model break his spine in pain as he flinches from the GLANCING blow... its kind of implied in the phrase "GLANCING blow" that the swing is ineffective to the point where it might as well have been a miss, but no, my character wreathes in anguish because literally a scratch to his heel determined that he should do so, and for no other reason.

how about introducing a short-term flinch for shit like that, rather than give us a full-blown "YOU WERE HIT" flinch? like perhaps just a 0.1 second flinch rather than the full 0.5-1 second flinch that occurs when this GLANCING BLOW happens?

hey hey, its only been about 3-4 months now devs, take your time, definitely no rush, you've only lost like 900.000 players over the course of the past few months due to your absolutely slow inactions.

oh and fucking fix input delay already, its gotten to the point where 50% of my mouse clicks don't register on frontline maps due to what i hope is lag, but suspect is input delay.
No, i am not being flinched, i am not parrying and missing my riposte window, i am straight up experiencing a total lack of input! like sometimes my fucking combos are broken for no reason at all, all because my mouse decides its a bit sleepy in this current millisecond. getting REALLY sick of it now.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

I honestly still think the best option is the ends and starts of swings do minimal damage due to little to know momentum
Keeps drags valid, but it reduces their power (realistically)

Knight 7768 14315
  • 3 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

if you say "realism" or "realistically" or any variation of that one more fucking time i'm gonna find you and i'm gonna make you play video games until you stop being so fucking stupid

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
if you say "realism" or "realistically" or any variation of that one more fucking time i'm gonna find you and i'm gonna make you play video games until you stop being so fucking stupid

What? They cant go together?
Guess you are the one lacking in video game experience

ARMA
SQUAD
Mount and Blade
Red Orchestra
Rising Storm
Escape from Tarkov
All games that implement high degrees of realism in their games

GTFO

1817 1902
  • 3 Aug '19
 SWSeriousMike

I don't know most of those games, but claiming that Mount and Blade is realistic is hilarious.

147 55
  • 3 Aug '19
 CazzyVR

I personally find it hard to tell if one is Dragging tbh. I am but a Filthy Casual and don't take the game too seriously. Hell, I don't even know how to Faint, which I keep mistaking for a Actual Blow. But I do know I occasionally will best someone in Combat in a fair way and I get lit up in chat or a Vote to Kick on me... for beating someone who just Stabs or whatever this Dragging is. Kinda annoying how serious people take the game tbh.

147 55
  • 3 Aug '19
 CazzyVR

@Badass_Ben said:
I honestly still think the best option is the ends and starts of swings do minimal damage due to little to know momentum
Keeps drags valid, but it reduces their power (realistically)

Start of Swing yes, as the user hasn't had time to really wind up the Attack. Mid-End Swing (Not Exact End however) is where the Damage of a Swing is the most Menacing. if full Blade then Expect a Bare Stomach (Half Naked Mauls anyone) would be Dead, if not at least taken out of Combat. A Tip would be less Damaging but if on a (say it with me) Naked Maul Boy would still leave a rather nasty Flesh Wound that can still render the Injured Party Unable to attack with a Weapon at effectiveness.

147 55
  • 3 Aug '19
 CazzyVR

@ToLazy4Name said:
if you say "realism" or "realistically" or any variation of that one more fucking time i'm gonna find you and i'm gonna make you play video games until you stop being so fucking stupid

So... Realism, Realistically or "Simulation" has no way it can go with Games? Have you tried Navel Combat? Golden Era Pirate Game that takes the Simulation Dial and turn's it up to "Holy Fucking Shit Save me Cthulu"! Here's an Idea of how Simulation it is. There are nearly 10 Buttons just to Move the Ship and Fire, if heading into Wind you have to angle your Sails so you can get out of it otherwise you are going to stop moving... and start moving backwards, You can't take some Shot's because the Angle of your Ship Prevents you from making a Shot that doesn't just go over the Enemy and it's because of the Wind bearing down upon your Ship from one Side.

Also many other's have shown Games that are Realistic in Nature... seriously... Arma 3... the game known for Clans of MILITARY SIMULATIONS!

Knight 7768 14315
  • 3 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

I honestly have no other thing to call you people other than "stupid"

Realism can go well with a game, yes, but realism does not equal good game mechanics. Saying "this game mechanic is bad because it's unrealistic" is not a fucking argument. Mordhau is not realistic, it is not attempting to be realistic, and it is not a game that prioritizes realism over actually good gameplay.

1817 1902
  • 3 Aug '19
 SWSeriousMike

What gave you the idea that Lazy was interested in your pirate game? :D

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@SWSeriousMike said:
I don't know most of those games, but claiming that Mount and Blade is realistic is hilarious.

I never played Mount and Blade really (I Heard it was realistic and I wanted to tag something that wasn't just a shooter milsim)
So you got me there

But my point that realistic games exist and can be fun, fair, and enjoyable is supported.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
I honestly have no other thing to call you people other than "stupid"

Realism can go well with a game, yes, but realism does not equal good game mechanics. Saying "this game mechanic is bad because it's unrealistic" is not a fucking argument. Mordhau is not realistic, it is not attempting to be realistic, and it is not a game that prioritizes realism over actually good gameplay.

You are literally contradicting yourself in your own post
"Realism can go well with a game"
"Realism does not equal good game mechanics"

All the games in the list I posted are realistic games that use REALITY and REALISTIC limitations to make games enjoyable.

I specifically remember the devs saying they wanted to make a semi-realistic sword fighting game, when they talked about wanting swords to be weaker vs plate armor than padded armor, and hammers and other crushing weapons more powerful. That is the whole reason I followed and bought the game in the first place
I enjoy reality based games for things I cant go out and do IRL.

MOST aspects of this game have a STRONG BASIS in reality
Hence why the weapons we use are based on their REAL LIFE counterparts
Why wearing armor reduces incoming damage, but reduces speed. These are all part of the game because that is how the world ACTUALLY works.

In before someone says "well healing overtime isn't realistic"
Its a spectrum, from 100% fantasy to 100% reality, and everything in between. No game wants 100% reality because a lot of time reality sucks. But you can have high levels of realism in the fundamental game mechanics. Healing quickly between fights doesn't impact the flow of play (except for bloodlust). Being hit instantly by a supposedly "slow" and heavy weapon does.