Mordhau

Weapon Imbalance Rant

1092 1726

Messer, cleaver, mace and heavy handaxe are way too floaty. It's like playing chivalry when these boys come out, cleaver is prolly the most offensive imo. Messer is cheese and would be a copy/paste from Chivalry but for duel hit trades. Cleaver is a messer designed for archers to 2 or 3 shot knights with RIDICULOUS swing manipulation. Pros love using this with bloodlust.

Also, why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Rapier is by no means floaty but I find the stab drags too long and baiting misses from it is awkward. It looks like you've dodged it and suddenly you've taken damage as it homes in on the final frame. Or you think you're a few feet out of range but it keeps flying at you. Git Gud right?

Also I find it absolutely rubbish when I get flinched by rapier in team play. Oh a rapier slash did like 15 damage to my T3 legs but that took down my parry so a maul can hit me. Same nonsense when Qstaff hits my T3 torso/legs.

Why can't we have a light mace? Oh but we got frying pans instead...? Can we please get the light mace/cudgel added with similar stats as the fying pan?

Not a fan of polearms/spears being couchable. Lance should be the couched weapon of the game. I also think Lance deserves to have actual stabs like a spear. Afterall, it can only parry when paired with a shield and falls short to spear in pretty much every category... Sure its longer but ping matters more in my experience as my lance will lose out to spear despite their stats.

Knight 762 3301
  • 27 Jul
 Mittsies

why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Currently at a point in the stab animation, it jumps forward so suddenly that it looks nearly instant. Because of this the stab actually being "faster" (shorter windup and/or release) doesn't even matter that much, although mace stabs are definitely annoying. The thing is, even Zweihander stabs seem instant because of how stabs work right now. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't mention Bastard Sword, which is arguably the most broken weapon in the game right now, especially because of its stabs.

954 302

as a Crossroads Cavalryman the spear is best for the Hose Lances should be better but are not as movable as a spear

54 58
  • 27 Jul
 freygeist

I agree on the cleaver. Seems op for 1 point. I would suggest making it a 2 Point Weapon. Same with the Heavy Hander, should be on point more. Mace is kinda hard to read, but i dont think its op. Messer stabs should be slower then the longswords yes, but otherwise i thinks its fine. You can always try counter the messer dragging ability with decent footwork, its range is not the best.

Conscript 186 472
  • 27 Jul
 Shovonem

Messer is by no means floaty imo. It used to be floaty. But the turncap was nerfed a lot latest patch. Also messer is faster now. It's more like an insta hit/insider weapon rather than floaty.
Cleaver doesn't seem floaty at all.
Heavy Hand axe is VEERY floaty. Need changing.
Mace drag is good but the big problem is the ridiculously instant stab. the stab needs to go.
I agree that rapier is very annoying and pretty much cheese. need rework.

Might seem off topic but if the devs decided make new stab animation that's not GARBAGE the game would be a lot better.

63 43
  • 27 Jul
 Cadiz

You wanna see cheese? If you hit R with the eveningstar, a lunge on T3 armor does 50 dmg.

1092 1726

@Mittsies said:

why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Currently at a point in the stab animation, it jumps forward so suddenly that it looks nearly instant. Because of this the stab actually being "faster" (shorter windup and/or release) doesn't even matter that much, although mace stabs are definitely annoying. The thing is, even Zweihander stabs seem instant because of how stabs work right now. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't mention Bastard Sword, which is arguably the most broken weapon in the game right now, especially because of its stabs.

You are absolutely right about everything. I dont include BS because I'm not sure what specifically is wrong with it besides being unreadable. Too fast? Too much DPS?

Zwei stab is pretty instantaneous but I play at 120 ping (so I dont know if its just me or a balance problem) unless Im on a duel server which is where I'm 60-70 ping and I dont see alot of zwei.

954 302

tbh i tried using a bastardsword without a shield and it doesent seem broken to me

84 134
  • 28 Jul
 IllOmens

@Cadiz said:
You wanna see cheese? If you hit R with the eveningstar, a lunge on T3 armor does 50 dmg.

eveningstar is one of the most broken weapons in the game right now

the battle axe alt mode is also broken with almost unreadable animations

954 302

@IllOmens said:

@Cadiz said:
You wanna see cheese? If you hit R with the eveningstar, a lunge on T3 armor does 50 dmg.

eveningstar is one of the most broken weapons in the game right now

the battle axe alt mode is also broken with almost unreadable animations

Hmmm thanks for the tip

84 134
  • 28 Jul
 IllOmens

@Antoniokontos said:

@IllOmens said:

@Cadiz said:
You wanna see cheese? If you hit R with the eveningstar, a lunge on T3 armor does 50 dmg.

eveningstar is one of the most broken weapons in the game right now

the battle axe alt mode is also broken with almost unreadable animations

Hmmm thanks for the tip

NO DON'T DO IT

Knight 925 2541
  • 28 Jul
 Pred

Cleaver is an epitome of what is wrong with weapons in Mordhau:

  • retarded speed
  • draggable
  • 3 shots T3 torso
  • 4 shots heavy legs (longsword needs 6 hits on heavy legs!!!1)
  • for some reason costs 1 point

How did that even make past the proofreading stage?

84 134
  • 28 Jul
 IllOmens

@Pred said:
Cleaver is an epitome of what is wrong with weapons in Mordhau:

  • retarded speed
  • draggable
  • 3 shots T3 torso
  • 4 shots heavy legs (longsword needs 6 hits on heavy legs!!!1)
  • for some reason costs 1 point

How did that even make past the proofreading stage?

garbage reach and the fact that it eats up a lot of stamina if you parry with it were probably meant to be the trade-offs but I'm not sure if that's enough

312 241
  • 28 Jul
 LoPan

I don’t have a problem reading any weapons animations. Never played anything but duels up to lvl 99 and have used every single weapon.

Only thing weapon wise I don’t like is mauls ability to one shot full T3 armor. But I also realize that without that silly niche it would just be a slower, shittier estar so I suppose it’s fine.

And held block shield crutch. They aren’t hard to beat because only trash players use them, they’re just tedious and annoying to face.

1092 1726

Pretty sure cleaver is actually has one of the best stam negation for point cost in the game. It used to have better stamina negation than billhook at or before release, not sure if this was changed.

The irony is that most of it's skins don't have a hand guard and it's really small to boot.

34 39
  • 29 Jul
 GROG

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Messer, cleaver, mace and heavy handaxe are way too floaty. It's like playing chivalry when these boys come out, cleaver is prolly the most offensive imo. Messer is cheese and would be a copy/paste from Chivalry but for duel hit trades. Cleaver is a messer designed for archers to 2 or 3 shot knights with RIDICULOUS swing manipulation. Pros love using this with bloodlust.

Also, why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Rapier is by no means floaty but I find the stab drags too long and baiting misses from it is awkward. It looks like you've dodged it and suddenly you've taken damage as it homes in on the final frame. Or you think you're a few feet out of range but it keeps flying at you. Git Gud right?

Also I find it absolutely rubbish when I get flinched by rapier in team play. Oh a rapier slash did like 15 damage to my T3 legs but that took down my parry so a maul can hit me. Same nonsense when Qstaff hits my T3 torso/legs.

Why can't we have a light mace? Oh but we got frying pans instead...? Can we please get the light mace/cudgel added with similar stats as the fying pan?

Not a fan of polearms/spears being couchable. Lance should be the couched weapon of the game. I also think Lance deserves to have actual stabs like a spear. Afterall, it can only parry when paired with a shield and falls short to spear in pretty much every category... Sure its longer but ping matters more in my experience as my lance will lose out to spear despite their stats.

GROG THINK YOU ARE TRASH EVEN THOUGH GROG NOT LIKE FAST POINTY SILVER STICKS.
GROG ALSO THANKS FOR TIME.

1092 1726

LIONHEART THINK YOU ARE BAD. LIONHEART LOVES SHINY STICKS IN ASS. LIONHEART ALSO THANKS FOR TIME. :)

81 55
  • 29 Jul
 HoracioCrux

Honestly, I think the Messer is in a good place right now, not to powerful, but good enough for five points. Its sometimes a little different to combat, but if you can time your parries right or chamber into a stab, its very beatable. I've killed loads of guys using the Messer. Its only been annoying when used with a shield, but I feel thats more the shields fault.

58 129
  • 29 Jul
 Quadsword

@HoracioCrux said:
Honestly, I think the Messer is in a good place right now, not to powerful, but good enough for five points. Its sometimes a little different to combat, but if you can time your parries right or chamber into a stab, its very beatable. I've killed loads of guys using the Messer. Its only been annoying when used with a shield, but I feel thats more the shields fault.

The messer's hit box is larger than the actual model. Also, the one handed animations are really messed up.

81 55
  • 29 Jul
 HoracioCrux

Ah, then I would support making the hitbox smaller. I guess I never really noticed. And as far as the animations, I almost exclusively use it two handed, so I must have just not seen them.