Mordhau

Healing suggestions

790 342
  • 1
  • 26 Jul '19
 PC_Principal

Hi,

I think you could rework how healing works and maybe take away some of the benefits you get from healing.
To me it feels like healing in general, but especially bloodlust is op.

EDIT:

So I came up with another related Idea.

Remove Idle healing
Remove HP on kill
Put Bloodlust and Tenacious both as a 2 point cost perks, but you can only pick one of the 2.
Bloodlust heals 25 (or 50?) HP on kill. Cannot use Tenacious.
Tenacious regenerates HP. Cannot use Bloodlust. (Tenacious regen has ~20% faster start than the current version)

This would lower everyone's life pool unless they used bandages or aid kits.
Would give good players less of an edge vs noobs and make spawn killing or camping close to enemy spawn less efficient.

3) Reduce bandage speed
Right now, aid kits need more time to heal than the bandage and the bandage allows you to move slowly without aiming at the ground, while also being cheaper and mobile.

4) reduce overall health regen
Health regenerates pretty fast, especially with the tenacious perk. Could increase the cost or nerf for 50% instead of 66%.
I suggest reducing health regen by ~ 20% overall.

5) Bloodlust
Bloodlust should come with some kind of disadvantage. Either you have no life regeneration, or can't use armor, or has depletable stacks, or a cooldown. Bloodlust is in my eyes the #1 balance breaker and unneccessarily increasing skill gaps between naked lvl 200 with maul and level 30 noobs using armor.

6) First Aid Kit
There doesn't seem to be a limit on how many aid kits you can deploy. 4 med kits, like with the bear traps, should be enough.
Also, they're not removed when you change class, as are toolbox structures (and bear traps? not sure)
I have the feeling some people just have loadouts with 3 medig bags and switch for 1 death to deploy 6 bags for their team and themselves and then change class again.

7) Bleeding effects
Someone already suggested it in a form of a perk. Damage over time prevents health regeneration and can still apply after being healed by bloodlust.

These are many ways to tackle the healing Issue but right when I started I thought it was very unrealistic that we're healing up so effortless, even without tenacious perk. Any thoughts on that?

1613 1197
  • 1
  • 27 Jul '19
 esturias

I'd wait with changes to healing until the game took a bit more shape. I hope for something like (a few) status effects, like bleeding or debuffs, which can only get healed via a medpack. Then you'd finally have some motivation to use those as a support player.

The only things I'd like to see right now:

  • Reduced health regen: That's really a bit too much. But that change has to go hand in hand with some general weapon balance, so that you don't have that many weapons with ridiculous damage output anymore (be it hand weapons or things like firepots and catapults)
  • Medpacks somehow highlighted on the screen: It's just stupid how you throw medpacks everywhere, but your teammates ignore them and just go dying instead. Not very rewarding when you get just 4 heals in a match as a character you named "Medic" and which carries 2 medpacks...
790 342

time to unearth this

790 342

So I came up with another related Idea.

  • Remove Idle healing
  • Remove HP on kill
  • Put Bloodlust and Tenacious both as a 2 point cost perks, but you can only pick one of the 2.
  • Bloodlust heals 25 (or 50?) HP on kill. Cannot use Tenacious.
  • Tenacious regenerates HP. Cannot use Bloodlust. (Tenacious regen has ~20% faster start than the current version)

This would lower everyone's life pool unless they used bandages or aid kits.
Would give good players less of an edge vs noobs and make spawn killing or camping close to enemy spawn less efficient.

188 241
  • 11 Feb
 Quenquent

@PC_Principal said:
This would lower everyone's life pool unless they used bandages or aid kits.

That's the problem of your solution : you are going to make Bloodlust, Tenacious, bandages and/or medkits mandatory for any build. Nobody wants mandatory stuff in a game about grabbing what you want.

790 342

Yea some kind of healing is in fact already mandatory for some builds lol. I heard healing increases chances of survivability.
This isn't changing much, except that you only get to choose to either have regen or life on kill, can't have both.
Could make the perks cost 1 or 0?

188 241
  • 11 Feb
 Quenquent

@PC_Principal said:
Yea some kind of healing is in fact already mandatory for some builds lol. I heard healing increases chances of survivability.
This isn't changing much, except that you only get to choose to either have regen or life on kill, can't have both.
Could make the perks cost 1 or 0?

You are trying to fix something that is not broken

790 342

Bloodlust's instant 100 HP heal is broken. In my opinion. If you disagree that's fine, but answer this: Why do you think it's not broken? I've talked about this many times and luckily a couple of people agree with me on that one.
It just gives good players a "win more" option. Which is in my opinion part of the reason why the game isn't exactly popular at the moment.
The whole concept of healing in the game seems unfinished to me.

188 241
  • 11 Feb
 Quenquent

@PC_Principal said:
If you disagree that's fine, but answer this: Why do you think it's not broken?

  • Bloodlust cost 5 points. It's already 31,25% of your loadout points gone and you have to make a build with 11 points now. Have 3/3/3 and you only have 2 points for weapons. If you don't run 3/3/3, then you will be less resilient and have more occasions to die in a few hits.
  • I don't really see a problem with a perk that allows you to fully heal yourself in a game when you can get one-shot killed or gangbanged by the entire enemy team for a simple mispositioning.
  • Bloodlust is not as impactful as you might think it is. The only moments Bloodlust is worth something is when you are doing a kill below 75hp. The overall "win more" argument isn't that viable for me since they would still be destroying teams due to the normal health on kill. And if they are getting that "win more" by using cheap weapons and low armor, it does seems fair to me.
  • Bloodlust is a symptom, not the cause. Weapons like the Cleaver, War Axe and Battle Axe are mostly used with Bloodlust due to their overall power and cheapness. If a weapon like the Cleaver got properly nerfed, you would see usage of Bloodlust drop down significantly.

Bloodlust MIGHT have problems, but you seriously fail at showing what's the problems with them and you are trying to rework the entire game's healing system over THAT failure. Even on your latest suggestion, you said :

@PC_Principal said:
This would lower everyone's life pool unless they used bandages or aid kits.

I fail to see the reason something like this is needed. I also don't want to be the players that will have to remake all of their loadouts to include one of those things, when they were free to not pick mandatory stuff beforehand. I honestly think you didn't think about all the impacts your suggestions have (or you simply told yourself "It's not that bad" or "They will just have to deal with it"). And if you think there's anything mandatory in every loadout you should pick no matter the gamemode, please enlighten me.

And finally :

@PC_Principal said:
Would give good players less of an edge vs noobs and make spawn killing or camping close to enemy spawn less efficient.

  • Catering toward new players has always been a bad idea. It is the main argument of people against strike through : it's lowering the skill ceiling. What about good players vs good players scenarios ?
  • If spawn killing is a problem then there's other solutions to look at (better spawn protections, better spawns...). And those solutions are not worth reworking the entire healing system.
790 342

Thanks for elaborating. I've seen the impact myself, and I don't agree with the statement that Bloodlust "is a symtom, not the cause". It doesn't matter what weapon you nerf, people are using another weapon and still using Bloodlust.
I think nerfing weapons will get us nowhere.

For what it does, the 5 point cost is still too cheap. It's one of the things that shouldn't be in the game at all or come with a heavy drawback, like not being able to regenerate HP, not being able to wear armor or being restricted to peasant weapons.
100 HP, Instant full heal is too much. It's just sad that this is even up for debate. If this was any other game and any other game designer this would never happen. I think the 25 HP instant heal we get on kill shoud be enough for the perk.

I saw your video, I get the point he's trying to make but he's wrong. Good players don't really need Bloodlust to stay alive if they don't over extend. If you don't drop below 75 that's fine, but that doesn't make Bloodlust bad. Especially a single video with a couple Bloodlust kills to support the claim doesn't serve the purpose.
There are some guys in Frontline that just push close to your spawn every time they respawn. Those guys will very likely be using bloodlust because they need the hundreds of hit points in their 1vX.
Bloodlust serves as "enabler" here, without Bloodlust there would be no way you could pull off such a rush and get away with 3 or more kills. If the spawn zone is moved a bit, they'll just wait outside the new spawn zone.
Due to the perk and it's healing it's too easy to lock down entire teams close to their spawn if all you do is just rush in, even if you screw up, your team has a better chance of winning, because you kept 3 people from moving out.
This is exponentially more effective if you get 3-5 kills. I can't even do this shit for an entire game, but I got 20 kills in just a few minutes with arming sword bloodlust close to enemy spawn. Also HHA stronk af. But it can be done with almost any weapon that's kinda good. Half the players are free kills, just running from spawn and not knowing you're already behind them, the others block and hit each other, slowing them even more.

Usually the players with 100+ kills always use Bloodlust. Why is it, that you can't get those numbers without it?
And why do I always see the top fraggers in camp running around blue spawn with Bloodlust?

I think nerfing Bloodlust would make some of the players more humble and punish over extensions or people purposely looking for 1vX Situations close to enemy base. (Because as well all know, Bloodlust is only good in 1vX)

Now of course, people would need to work harder for their killstreaks if all they got was 25 hp on kill.
The loadout Issue could be resolved with a little ingame message saying: "One or more of your Loadouts aren't up to date anymore." That should be the smallest of Issues.

Try not using Bloodlust for a while and make up your mind then. Play Cleaver / HHA / Axe without Bloodlust and tell me if it's still OP. (I think they're still strong but not OP without Bloodlust)

790 342

So, in the current state, I won't be touching Mordhau unless something is done about that stupid vampire perk and it's only counter, the maul.
The game isn't balanced at all and it's probably still way too easy to cheat, simply by editing mordhau text files.
If there was a godmode perk, that turned you invincible for 30 seconds but it costs 5 points, would you take the perk?
Would you also defend it with the same logic, how it's cost somehow justifies what it does?