Mordhau

Cavalry hot take

15 14
  • 16 Jul
 DonPelayo

Alright guys. I'm here to play the cavalry devil's advocate: Cavalry is NOT op.
First off, horse archers (archery is hard enough to pin down since it seems like none of my shots actually hit where i'm aiming lol) is not all that viable. If people are aware of your presence then they can just billhook you, or worse they can get one of their own cavalry guys after you. It's just not a solid choice.

Knights on horses (with swords, mauls, etc) are absolute trash. I say that because (and i haven't done any research to verify this) but the hitboxes on swords, various 2 handers, do not work very well. I've seen hits go straight through the enemy as I'm passing by them without any damage.

Spears are the only issue I can see, and afaik they're working as intended. They piss me off for sure, but that's to be expected. Everything angers me. I'm an angry person.

Thoughts?

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Knight 7759 14276
  • 16 Jul
 ToLazy4Name

Yes, the unblockable 1 shot with the longest range of any melee attack is very balanced

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  • 16 Jul
 esturias

@DonPelayo said:
Thoughts?

You are wrong, for reasons shared in every single thread about this.

81 55
  • 16 Jul
 HoracioCrux

@DonPelayo said:

Thots*

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Fixed that for you.

50 42
  • 16 Jul
 Kashi

Honestly there are like 3 things that could help reign back horses without 100% gutting them

  1. The bump needs to be tuned back to match the horse itself and mostly be only on the front of the horse

  2. Make the crossbow an option to hurt horses more (with a perk perhaps or even a heavy crossbow )

  3. Add a perk that allows polearm classes to do more damage to horsemen and their horses

,nothing super extreme but enough to discourage horse riders to yeet themselves at groups of people with little risk to themselves as the big issue currently is

Mercenary 86 109
  • 16 Jul
 VCliff

@DonPelayo said:
Alright guys. I'm here to play the cavalry devil's advocate: Cavalry is NOT op.
First off, horse archers (archery is hard enough to pin down since it seems like none of my shots actually hit where i'm aiming lol) is not all that viable. If people are aware of your presence then they can just billhook you, or worse they can get one of their own cavalry guys after you. It's just not a solid choice.

Cavalry Archer roleplay is ineed underwhelming because its A: way harder to hit something from horseback and B: not actually more effective compared to melee Cavalry.

But Cavalry Archers have to be weaker since the only way to touch one is to use your own ranged weapons or another rider.
Recurve Bow should profit from a damage Bonus like Meleee weapons, just weaker. Would make it more interesting compared to the other Ranged weapons.

Knights on horses (with swords, mauls, etc) are absolute trash. I say that because (and i haven't done any research to verify this) but the hitboxes on swords, various 2 handers, do not work very well. I've seen hits go straight through the enemy as I'm passing by them without any damage.

This is straigh up wrong, you can have amazing results with almost any weapon on a horse.

Spears are the only issue I can see, and afaik they're working as intended. They piss me off for sure, but that's to be expected. Everything angers me. I'm an angry person.

Good you aknowledge that because 95% of horse riders will use the spear and just go on couch cruise control, brainlessly oneshotting everyone who still has not a PTSD.

How to fix Horse:

Reduce Collision Hitbox for Flinch.
Increase turning radius for couched horses by a good margin .
Incerase minimum speed requirement for couching.
Decrease acceleration for all Horses.
Reduce Attack Range for Halberd and Spear Stabs.
Optimal: Melee and Throwing Weapons deal more damage to horses and riders depending on the current speed of the rider/angle of the attack.

Genoese Crossbows sound interesting since they are historically relevant and a nice reference to Age of Empires II.
On the other hand probaly 90+% of melee players are against a equivalent to a Medival AWP (AKA Chivalrys Heavy Crossbow) in this game.

50 42
  • 16 Jul
 Kashi

Genoese Crossbows sound interesting since they are historically relevant and a nice reference to Age of Empires II.
On the other hand probaly 90+% of melee players are against a equivalent to a Medival AWP (AKA Chivalrys Heavy Crossbow) in this game.

It could very easily be offset to high point cost

Slower time to aim
longer reload time
And low ammo count

But the benefits would be extreme damage

Potentially bonus damage vs cavalry built in

20 27
  • 16 Jul
 Quxudais

Cavalry as a mechanic is painfully underdeveloped which is what causes so much frustration with them. The problem with the mechanic is that there's no depth to it. A horse is just a straight up power buff with no real trade off and no time limit. It grants you a permanent damage boost just for sitting on the horses back, enough so to make it possible to one shot any level of armor 90% of the time regardless of hit location. It grants a range buff to your weapon, making even short non-cav weapons usable with that huge damage boost. Mounting a horse effectively grants you a nearly guaranteed few free kills unless you are extremely bad at riding them. A horse rider facing any foot soldier risks a fairly low chance at just taking some damage, damage they can easily heal up, a footsoldier risks being one-shot by a horse rider regardless of what weapon the rider has or what armor the soldier is wearing. This power disparity is at massive odds with how little a rider has to sacrifice to be effective on horseback vs what a footman has to sacrifice to deal with riders. There's also no particular effort involved in getting horses; They just respawn infinitely on simple timers.

To effectively even try to combat a half decent rider you have to dedicate a large portion of your build either by taking ranged weapons or a billhook, whereas a rider can take basically anything. This is amplified by the fact, contrary to any level of common sense, the most effective cavalry weapons are also currently among the most effective (and over represented) weapons for footsoldiers. You aren't actually making any play style sacrifice building for cav effectiveness. A player building for horseback riding is going to be just as effective on foot as any standard footman build because no tradeoffs are required to make Cav effective. Yet to counter cav you do have to make radical playstyle choices.

At bare minimum being mounted should not grant range increases to melee weapons, some weapons should quite literally be impossible to use from horseback because they do not have the reach or are too unwieldy to swing. The Cav damage bonus should be tied to the speed the horse is moving, standing still or moving at a slow trot should grant no bonus damage at all and 100% bonus should only be attainable at 100% speed. Horses should also not just be guaranteed spawns. Their availability should be tied to a control point (a stable), to spawn them you should have to control said point. I'd also say the stable itself should be destructible so that even if you maintain control, the enemy could get behind your lines and destroy said stable to force your team to rebuild it before it can start spawning horses again. Additionally I'd argue that actually spawning a horse should require the completion of some kind of sub-objective, so that actual effort has to be invested for a team to field cav. Just make this something that can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time if a couple players work together to do it.

Horse-stun should also be reworked. It should require the horse to be moving a certain speed before it can stun/flinch a player, said speed can be different for each horse type (armored vs unarmored). You also should not be able to magically stop a swing from landing once said swing is already past a certain point of completion and blocking a horse charge, while its fine that it knocks you down, should not disarm you.

Cav as they stand are just a half-baked mechanic. They lack any depth and are just straight up permanent power boosts that don't require any tradeoffs. To get the most effective use out of Cav you should have to kit out a build that isn't just as effective on foot. You should actually have to make some choices if you want to use cav that impact your playstyle and strength when you don't have that horse.

Subjectively horses just don't add anything fun to a FL match either. They are roving one-shot machines that you won't even see coming most of the time. Get into a tense, fun line battle then suddenly fall over because a horse decided to ride through your general vicinity.. an event you can do nothing about and have no agency in. They do nothing but detract from the games combat in their current design.

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Cavalry hot take: I wish the game had received less money so that horses weren't funded

On a more constructive note, they'd be a lot less frustrating if being bumped by a horse didn't flinch you.

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If Tim Sweeney had just gone to med school like his parents wanted instead of being a bitch ass nerd we never would have had to deal with horses. Makes you think

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0ba791a4c89f0b50b14ac6f942baba98.jpeg those most kills in one life was on a horse