Mordhau

Crossroads is terrible

274 322
  • 1
  • 13 Jul '19
 DrGert

For a map that has one fucking objective - it’s hard to believe that something more lopsided than the original taiga can exist.
This map is literally a horse highway at blue spawn.

I understand resources are limited over at Trit but Holy fuck guys, cmon. It’s amazing that you even allow such a map to be included in frontline rotation. This needs a hot fix big time.

Fortunately most people hate this map enough to where it’s almost entirely avoided but when it does get voted for, holy shit does it feel terrible to play.

TBH even though the map is one giant flame engulfed choke point, I would still consider it playable if there weren’t 20 horses on constant respawn. Terrible.

161 127
  • 14 Jul '19
 Aodlop

Remove horses from the game.

Knight 7768 14320
  • 14 Jul '19
 ToLazy4Name

REMOVE

404 607
  • 4
  • 14 Jul '19
 smug

A quick fix is just to remove horses, or greatly reduce the number that spawn. The amount of people that would miss them is probably incredibly low, and it would make the map at the very least better than Taiga, and probably compete with Mountain Pass for the title of "King of The Trash Maps". Why Trit somehow believes people like horses, or that it adds a cool experience to crossroads leads me to believe that they are incredibly out of touch with their own game, or incredibly arrogant.

Once that happens people are free to have roleplay fights out in the grassfield, or god forbid fight on the ground level of the center obj without being under threat every 20 seconds. The vertical space on the map isn't suited for 48-64 man servers, and just ends up being a clusterfuck due to firebombs/arrows/lack of footwork room to properly 1vX, the whole map just wasn't thought out aside from a vanilla concept of "dude wouldn't it be cool if".

119 78
  • 14 Jul '19
 Cence

The problem is not the horses at all. The problem is the amount of ammo boxes and firebomb/javelin spammers. This kind of play just feels terrible on Crossroads because of its narrow paths etc.

404 607
  • 14 Jul '19
 smug

Those are problems on every map. The difference is that CR has 2x the amount of horses compared to the other maps. The actual layout of the map is not any worse than Taiga/Mountain Peak horses just make it seem so because they effectively limit you to areas of the map that suck dick for melee fights.

119 78
  • 14 Jul '19
 Cence

No, the areas where you are supposed to fight are narrow and constrained. Outside of the fort is basically horse land and if you don't want to engage there you don't have to.

404 607
  • 11
  • 14 Jul '19
 smug

@Cence said:
No, the areas where you are supposed to fight are narrow and constrained. Outside of the fort is basically horse land and if you don't want to engage there you don't have to.

Yes that's my point.

How is making a 48-64 player map where the intended areas of which to engage the enemy are "narrow and constrained" good map design? The map would be more well received if you could skirmish in the outersides of the map which serve no purpose just like the areas in Mountain Peak. Actually in CR there are direct flanking routes that are outright given to blue to open up the left gate, but no one ever attempts it because of the fucking horses. In a world WITHOUT horses red would have to pay more attention to left side pushes rather than just camping the front hole and ladders atm. (Right side if you're playing from red pov)

You seriously think people like fighting on the CR bridge and because of parry knockback they fall to their deaths? You think they like fighting on the center obj platform when some memelords are running firepot builds and lighting it up?

Horses make the map WORSE, because they limit people to fighting in these absolute trash areas if they don't want to be speared by a horse every 10 seconds.

119 78
  • 14 Jul '19
 Cence

Your initial suggestion was to remove horses which would defeat the point of this map. They simply need to reduce the amount of ammo boxes as crush suggested and the map will be less cancerous.

I don't like Crossroads either, but removing horses is not an option.

404 607
  • 5
  • 14 Jul '19
 smug

How are horses an entity which rarely contributes to capping the center point in a KOTH map, where the objective IS to cap and hold the center point as long as possible, the SOLE purpose of the map? As I've said the only purpose they serve is locking down areas of the map due to their sheer power and number. Once again what's exactly the point of designing flank routes for blue, if they rarely ever get utilized because no one wants to play frogger on the sides of CR? Just think about the inherent logic of the map for a second. The left gate that is locked for BLUE, if opened allows access to the stairs which allows blue to flank the battlements to prevent red from guarding the ladders. Yet this is never seen because it's impossible to even open the gate or defend it while its opened.

ammo boxes as crush suggested

Yeah he's incredibly out of touch, and just because crush says something doesn't make it objectively fact, when crossroads was released this bad, hell I don't trust the developers in this instance because they managed to make CR worse not better through patching with the removal of forward spawns. If I were to do a statistical analysis of all the complaints levied toward CR, I'm fairly certain that around 75% of them would involve horses.

Knight 7768 14320
  • 14 Jul '19
 ToLazy4Name

the ammo boxes aren't the problem lmao the problem is that the map fucking sucks

119 78
  • 14 Jul '19
 Cence

@smug said:
How are horses an entity which rarely contributes to capping the center point in a KOTH map, where the objective IS to cap and hold the center point as long as possible, the SOLE purpose of the map?

Never said that. What I mean is that the entire design of the map is obviously to make it a horse map. 10% of the area is the center point, the rest is open space for the horses. Don't forget that Frontline is a casual mode and apparently a lot of people like horses (me not).

Yeah he's incredibly out of touch, and just because crush says something doesn't make it objectively fact

Of course it doesn't. I just agree with him because the horses rarely are the reason I die on Crossroads. It is mainly 5 people coming out of nowhere to bang me, javelins hitting me from nowhere or firebombs blocking my path to the point.

If I were to do a statistical analysis of all the complaints levied toward CR, I'm fairly certain that around 75% of them would involve horses.

Do the analysis first before coming up with random numbers, what you're doing is projection.
Listen, I agree that Crossroads sucks. But to me it sucks not because of horses, but because of the map design that reinforces all the cancer in the game (javelins, fire bombs). In fact I made a forum post about this when Crossroads came out.

404 607
  • 5
  • 14 Jul '19
 smug

Never said that. What I mean is that the entire design of the map is obviously to make it a horse map. 10% of the area is the center point, the rest is open space for the horses.

No you're projecting that onto the map because it's literally horse fields with the center keep thrown in, but the actual objective itself has nothing to do with the existence or the nonexistence of horses. The horses probably make less sense in this case because it's a KOTH map which you didn't even address. Lets use your logic for a second, is camp also a "horse" map because it has wide open spaces?

Don't forget that Frontline is a casual mode and apparently a lot of people like horses (me not).

Dude no, you're so out of touch with the community if you believe that the majority of people like horses. Just no dude. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mordhau/comments/cd5rw2/the_crossroads_blue_team_experience/

I literally see that within 5 seconds of opening reddit

, but because of the map design that reinforces all the cancer in the game (javelins, fire bombs). In fact I made a forum post about this when Crossroads came out.

Yes but limiting ammo boxes doesn't fix the actual geometry problems with the map layout. All the maps in Mordhau are objectively bad for FrontLine, even grad which is considered the "best" because of how crowded they get at the 48-64 player level. Bringing the number of horses on par with the rest of the maps makes crossroads more bearable because more of the map is opened up for skirmishes just like every other fucking frontline map. Are the "limited" ammo boxes stopping firebomb spam on other maps? They are cancer there too. You only see jav spam on crossroads? Lets not be disingenuous.

129 141
  • 14 Jul '19
 chill_clinton

Crossroads bad

119 78
  • 15 Jul '19
 Cence

@smug said:

Never said that. What I mean is that the entire design of the map is obviously to make it a horse map. 10% of the area is the center point, the rest is open space for the horses.

No you're projecting that onto the map because it's literally horse fields with the center keep thrown in, but the actual objective itself has nothing to do with the existence or the nonexistence of horses. The horses probably make less sense in this case because it's a KOTH map which you didn't even address. Lets use your logic for a second, is camp also a "horse" map because it has wide open spaces?

I agree with you on the objective part, and I never claimed otherwise. But let me ask you, why do you think they added 10 horse spawns per team? Because they wanted to have a map with more horse combat. Yes, the horses are absolutely useless to winning a Crossroads game. Yes, it is a KOTH map. No, Camp is not a horse map, simply because it does not have 10 horse spawns and the map is actually more detailed than Crossroads. The terrain and the props make it look like a giant battlefield which I like a lot (despite ballistas and catapults, but hey, the game needs this stuff for casuals). If you take a look at the "wide open spaces" in Crossroads, it's just a terrain with a few painted hills and the same grass texture everywhere. You could design this terrain in less than a day (including the trees at the outer edges) and it is quite obvious that the reason for this was to quickly give the players another map to play while they are working on Feitora and that other map.

Don't forget that Frontline is a casual mode and apparently a lot of people like horses (me not).

Dude no, you're so out of touch with the community if you believe that the majority of people like horses. Just no dude. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mordhau/comments/cd5rw2/the_crossroads_blue_team_experience/

I literally see that within 5 seconds of opening reddit

Stop putting words in my mouth, I said a lot of people like horses, not the majority of players. There is a significant difference between these terms.

, but because of the map design that reinforces all the cancer in the game (javelins, fire bombs). In fact I made a forum post about this when Crossroads came out.

Yes but limiting ammo boxes doesn't fix the actual geometry problems with the map layout. All the maps in Mordhau are objectively bad for FrontLine, even grad which is considered the "best" because of how crowded they get at the 48-64 player level. Bringing the number of horses on par with the rest of the maps makes crossroads more bearable because more of the map is opened up for skirmishes just like every other fucking frontline map. Are the "limited" ammo boxes stopping firebomb spam on other maps? They are cancer there too. You only see jav spam on crossroads? Lets not be disingenuous.

I would be fine with bringing the number of horses down in Crossroads if the open space at least had some kind of visual appeal or level design. As I said it's just one grass texture, a few hills, 2 rocks and 10 trees. Camp looks much more realistic because of the terrain height differences, towers, spikes, corpses and so on.

You need to learn how to read mate, I said more ammoboxes reinforce the cancer already existing in the game. It certainly makes things worse if people have access to twice as many firebombs and javelins as on other maps, don't you think?

We can cry about javelins and firebombs all we want, it will never be removed because noobs need a way to steal some kills in Frontline. Otherwise they would refund the game after 2 hours because they get beaten to death by melee gods.

1909 1998
  • 15 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

I recently watched Giru's stream for a short while. My favorite part was "Crush has identified a problem with Crossroads" and then went on talking about ammo boxes. Shit's hilarious.

957 311
  • 16 Jul '19
 Antoniokontos

Frontlines bad