Mordhau

"'Mordhau' and the Fantasy of an All-White Middle Ages"

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@CatR said:
Gonna be honest here. You can bang the drum of 'But we are adding muffins to this game populated entirely by cupcakes ANY SECOND NOW!' all you want but you can't get credit for it. You don't get grades based on what you were going to add into your paper if you had 2 more weeks, you get graded by the paper you hand in. Your movie doesn't get reviewed based on what the sequel looks like. Mordhau is a product that is sold for full price as a finished product and is treated as such.

Also, getting offended that journalists write news about the contents of the game and calling for their heads most of the time by discrediting their work and sometimes quite literally calling for their execution, as you'll see more frequently on the Steam forums; it doesn't exactly scream 'calm rational people that are really just doing their best'. Meaning no offence, but having a mod call the piece 'slander' is not really helping the image, because I actually took the time to read the thing everyone was outraged about and here is what I found:

The research is cited and uses a credible source. It postulates a correct phenomenon that entertainment about medieval times or European martial arts attracts white-supremacists. Mordhau as an example quite literally had people talking about the 'white ethno-state' and 'cultural marxism' until very recently. And in the end the article does not say anything about Trinternion that is not true. Let us get some quotes!

The developers of Mordhau, whether they planned to or not, have created an environment that is amenable to the
viewpoints of white supremacist appropriators of medieval culture.

Yeah, pretty much. Until very recently the entirety of the front page was "Don't add black knight!!" which incidentally is still what the Steam forums look like every other day. Sorry, Void, but you can't stem the tide on your own. You don't have to agree with the sentiment to see that it is still a very present factor in the community.

Mordhau’s forums, officially moderated by Triternion, are currently home to a number of threads and communities that
have a relatively lax approach to offensive slang.

Yes, pretty much. I don't find "Kniggas" offensive but I'd call it 'lax' indeed. Of course even people who argue for stricter moderation often use the N-word or the F-word or the R-word in descriptive or mocking ways. I don't refer to them as such in private but this is not private, is it?

Not only is this a gross misrepresentation of historical concepts of medieval societies, but it offers a dangerous space
for white supremacist movements to take hold, claiming that “authentic” portrayals of medieval Europe look a lot like
Mordhau: white, male, bloody.

Same as the first statement, Mordhau certainly contains only white people, only men, and a lot of blood. It certainly did not ever enforce the 'no racism' rule. Seems fair to me; we'll get to the historical argument in a second.

The fact that Mordhau, a game that draws heavily from the same aesthetics as neofascist white supremacist movements draw inspiration from, is grappling with bigotry and hate movements within their
gaming community, comes across as disappointing, but unfortunately not surprising.

Nothing controversial there, it is struggling, and neofascists do love knights. In fact I challenge you to find any part of this article that is in fact slanderous, inaccurate, or attacking Mordhau. I challenge you because these quotes I put forth are in reverse order and they still are isolated descriptive statements that in no way, shape, or form lie or mislead about what the Mordhau community contains. It in no way claims Triternion are racists, nor does it claim that this is an intentional development, nor does it claim that Triterion actively endorses any of its community bad behaviour. Now if you want to argue with their cited expert then go ahead, I won't join that discussion because I have better things to do than arguing with 10 people none of which has read a primary or even secondary source; but you enjoy that.

So let's all smash our pots and pans and yell loudly about how Trinternion is being targeted by the SJW press, that they are a victim of a conspiracy by Epic Games to make their work look bad. Let's weep sad little tears about how the average outside observer sees the Mordhau community as a place where people gladly engage in rubbing one out to romanticised medieval fantasies about murdering each other. Let us claim that everyone who criticises Mordhau is either out to get us, or over-sensitive political activists, or just don't see the bigger picture, man!

Because sure Mordhau is a game released where the only customisation options you have are being a white man, but you can be female soon! Very soon! And black! Or Asian! You can be all these things in the future just trust us NOW that all of this is coming in the future. The only reason it is delayed is because we have such a HIGH STANDARD that we wouldn't want to release LOW QUALITY CONTENT. That's literally the only reason. Just trust us, despite being given no reason to do so, despite the community showing that you really shouldn't; please trust us. The word filter? We'll release it when it's perfect, we'll release all the moderation features when they satisfy our personal standards. Don't worry, once they're all released you'll think yourself a fool for doubting us!

Or, perhaps, just maybe.

Now this is just, you know, a suggestion.

You know me, my silly suggestions.

How about taking responsibility for your actions?

I read the article in it's entirety, I agree with this statement 110%.

11 39

@ToLazy4Name said:

@smug said:
At this point Trit has to make a statement that they infact don’t stand with white nationalists.

Why the hell would they need to make a statement about this when there is zero evidence that they do? You don't humor accusations of this sort. Doing so means that the accusation has any credibility at all, which it doesn't.

However, when it's gotten to this point, NOT addressing it also allows people's minds to wander and can potentially fan the flames even further, because it can be interpreted as you being complacent with that bullshit. Yes, it sucks, but this is where we are now. By choosing to just ignore it, then it potentially gives the claims more credibility.

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@Alasdair said:
They are capitulating to journalists by removing the toggle, and saying they would censor if they had the manpower to do so. they are either giving lip service to get them to fuck off or capitulating to threats made by internet activists with no power.

This is why I know the devs aren't white nationalists. A true neo-nazi skinhead-klansmen such as myself would have ignored the manufactured outrage completely or given a curt "we allow full freedom of speech on our forum" type of response, but the Mordhau devs buckled. They effectively pissed themselves and ran for the tall grass, and now the pinkos are chasing them while pulling up their low-rise skinny jeans.

Let this be a lesson to all of the Jordan Peterson-tier conservative types out there: "B-b-b-but, we're not racist!" never works. You're dealing with puritanical lunatics. These people worship at the altar of multiculturalism and will viciously attack any threat, real or perceived, to their untenable vision of a race-blind butt-sex utopia. These people are clowns. They are not to be taken seriously.

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When they waste time on adding filters and money on hiring moderators, who do you blame? The "SJWs" or the people that require moderation?
If you ultra-conservative hatemongers would just shut up, we could have more good things. As it is now, you are distracting the dev team from their actual job. But you can't help it, can you?

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@OccidentalOverdose said:
A true neo-nazi skinhead-klansmen such as myself

hmmmmmmm going to need to see your credentials buddy. how many youtube comments have u posted & how many hours do u have in 8chan

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  • 1
  • 15 Jul
 Luward

@smug said:
I don’t care either way, its just the obvious move forward. Probably because Trit are infact NOT white nationalists despite certain parts of the community projecting that onto them, and continuing to ruin their reputation. The optics for being known as a game altrighters/white nationalists play despite not being true just isnt good.

The way forward is to ignore the dirty, dirty smear merchants. Games urinalism is just a more toxic from of internet trolling. The only solution is to not feed them.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190713015407/https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzpeg/mordhau-and-the-fantasy-of-an-all-white-middle-ages
fix'd your link for ya, SushiFish

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@Luward said:
The way forward is to ignore the dirty, dirty smear merchants. Games urinalism is just a more toxic from of internet trolling. The only solution is to not feed them.

... which you just did. You might even get to be mentioned in the next article about how Mordhau is the enemy of the free press. :D

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Gaming culture is just weird.

When a game doesn't have enough selectable skin tones everyone loses their mind.
When I replicate an ISIS video in Mordhau no one bats an eye.

MORDHAU 2019.07.07 - 00.16.25.03.DVR.00_00_01_17.Still001.png

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  • 15 Jul
 mr_jah

I think that this article is supremacist and feels like fascist press to read.

Those people will become worse than their opponents, they're trying to blame. As it was said next fascism will be left based, not right based.

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@Ayyske said:

@PC_Principal said:
The Left 4 Dead 2 community is uncensored and we kinda learned to deal with it.
Now I don't play moba, except in original wc3 maybe. So I don't care about the system dota or LOL has.
You can't properly censor the internet. They'll come up with new ways, for example I played with a guy that called himself Neggir. Have fun including that in your word filter tho...

There's a marked difference between a space where someone cleverly skirts the filter and has the name "neggir" (and is probably still laughed at/reported) and one where people can openly say "fuck you n----r" and it's tolerated. Like, it's night and day.

The fact that you won't 100% succeed in "censoring" all expressions of hate speech doesn't mean that it's worthless to try, lmao.

when i lived in San Diego i heard "F you N*" alot

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  • 15 Jul
 esturias

@Shitscrubber64 said:
When a game doesn't have enough selectable skin tones everyone loses their mind.

That's not what this whole fuss is about.

When I replicate an ISIS video in Mordhau no one bats an eye.

Do you really want to compare the public PR stuff of a game with the nonsense that people do in the privacy of their servers?

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@Shitscrubber64 said:
Gaming culture is just weird.

When a game doesn't have enough selectable skin tones everyone loses their mind.
When I replicate an ISIS video in Mordhau no one bats an eye.

MORDHAU 2019.07.07 - 00.16.25.03.DVR.00_00_01_17.Still001.png

it was already planned on their kickstarter. also lmao

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You dont need to back as far as the middleages, even just 80 years ago Europe was still 99.99% white. Here in Norway nobody i know had even seen a non-white person before 1970, and only a handfull before 1990. Thats how rare it was even up to our time and its the same in most of Europe.
These "journalists"/activists love pushing their anti-european propaganda, and dont let any opportunity to piss on Europeans and European identity go to waste.
Reality is Spain and southern Italy was taken by arabs, the rest of Europe was extremly white and the only non-whites there would be was a few travelling traders.

Its as stupid as saying africa has never been entirely african, because there was always a small group of asian and european traders there, but we all know they would never say something like this about a group other than europeans/europe. Most of these "journalists" are extremly brainwashed, or lying on purpose to undermine europeans identity(and by a extension the very existence of Europeans as a people).

Now im not saying the game should be realistic or that it is realistic, im simply commenting his statement about a white medieval Europe being a fantasy, its rather the opposite that is a fantasy as Europe has been extremly homogenous up untill just 30-40 years ago, heck even when i was kid 25 years ago in Scandinavia it was still almost entirely homogenous. But certain people just cant stand the thought of that i guess. Nothing can stand in way of their goal of a rootless globohomo consumer who's identity only revolves around which ever product from mega cooporation he temporarily enjoys the most to consume.

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  • 15 Jul
 ToLazy4Name

I'm not gonna argue with anything Eld just said, it's just when people attribute political motives to the devs or refuse to acknowlege that the game is fictional that I get annoyed.

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  • 15 Jul
 Dialectic

If the evidentiary standard adopted by some of you were to be applied universally, then triternion could successfully sue many posters here for defamation under the pretense that false accusations of racism were the cause of player count drops and therefore loss in revenue.

But keep up your woke crusade of slander. I'm sure you're winning hearts and minds by calling everyone racist.

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  • 15 Jul
 CatR

Eid Of Norway of course neglects to mention the Jewish and Romani presence in the 19th and 20th centuries, which were greatly diminished in the 1940s due to the systemic extermination of these peoples. Also ignoring the fact that Norway aside from its indigenous native population which was forcibly integrated with violence all throughout the 20th century, Norway has for the past 500 years been split between rural areas and commercial harbour cities such as Oslo and Bergen where German and Danish trade ports existed; facilitating international trade. All good Norwegians are of course familiar with our traditional "Aquawhite" spirits depicting foreign exotic locales where Norwegians did business and traded, and our extremely racist chocolates and sweeties.

Other than the extensive records of foreigners settling in these places, Norway and Scandinavia as a whole also has a great tradition of sea-faring before the 1500s where sailors and robber barons from all the North settled in such places as Russia and Italy, and in fact sometimes if they bothered to return to the icy wasteland we call our home they usually brought more than just goods WINKY FACE. Of course even earlier settling of the British isles being relevant; the tradition of taking women of foreign cultures as slaves explicitly for marriage and integration into Norwegian society is also well-established.

Of course this, broadly speaking, thousand year period, made Norway bizarrely multicultural along its coasts compared to the inland, so multicultural that the language itself was not the same region to region hence why Norway today has 2 written languages. The close proximity with empire and the constant presence of international trade and a strong seafaring cultures made Scandinavia a presence almost all over Europe. Though with end of the second world war tensions between countries ran high, entering into the cold war of which Norway was no small part due to its advantageous military position for the USSR and the important NATO ally for the United States, anti-Americanism blossomed through this period and it was not uncommon growing up in the 70s or 80s to have mothers give you a proper slapping for liking too many American things because foreign things were according to them: very dangerous.

A general fear of the outside world has been a present factor in the Norwegian national identity ever since the writing of the Norwegian constitution in 1814 which notably, while unusual for its time counted women "mostly" equal to men, made a specific mention that while all men were created equal all Jews and Jesuits should keep their mouths shut. This proved controversial for the obviously anti-humanitarian foundations Norway had been built on as a fledgeling state of the enlightenment period and was changed in 1851 after almost 10 years in dispute, voted on three different times in this period prior to the successful vote in 1851.

This has been your brief history of Norway! These are the parts Eid neglected to mention when he perpetuated the myth that foreigners of different creeds and colours didn't arrive in Norway until the tail end of the 20th century, they had in fact been very prominent until a bunch of them were murdered. However it is very convenient to ignore these factors when one decides what's fact or fiction based largely on emotions and dictate statistics on a whim.

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  • 15 Jul
 smokratez

@Atlas-D said:
This is seriously getting on my nerves. There are AAA games that are far more toxic with far more players but they don't get this media attention. I wonder why they're targeting mordhau so hard?

Are the devs all white? If so you, there you go.

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You should all stop being so racist imo.

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@CatR said:
Eid Of Norway of course neglects to mention the Jewish and Romani presence in the 19th and 20th centuries, which were greatly diminished in the 1940s due to the systemic extermination of these peoples.

Jews and gypsies were never found in large numbers in Norway, and their presence in Europe has always been destructive. They certainly didn't shape European history in a meaningful and positive way. They have always been to Europe what fleas are to a dog.

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  • 15 Jul
 smug

@OccidentalOverdose said:

@CatR said:
Eid Of Norway of course neglects to mention the Jewish and Romani presence in the 19th and 20th centuries, which were greatly diminished in the 1940s due to the systemic extermination of these peoples.

Jews and gypsies were never found in large numbers in Norway, and their presence in Europe has always been destructive. They certainly didn't shape European history in a meaningful and positive way. They have always been to Europe what fleas are to a dog.

The Mordhau forums ladies and gentleman.