Mordhau

Right wing death squads when

Conscript 2643 2239
 vanguard

Guys Srsly, this is really short wall of text pls, specially u Mr Lazy, this man talks about individual freedom and communism, he questions if its possible, talks about experiences and shit:

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-communism-and-anarchy

Its fucking interesting imo

Knight 5575 9321

Sorry bud, but i'll actually fucking die if I read any more shit about communism. I've read the Communist Manifesto and volume 1 of Das Kapital. I literally can't stomach any more of it.

Conscript 2643 2239
 vanguard

@ToLazy4Name said:
yeah dude people just randomly own things it's not like most businessmen take out loans and gamble their entire livelihoods on their business in the hopes that they'll become successful it's not like they do anything helpful at all

Welp, my point still stands. Now this gamble gives you right to enjoy total freedom while the rest of society is in serfdom? Whats the fucking logic behind this lmao, why you think your gamble is so much more important then what, you know, farmers do? Why you think you deserve more then people from the working class?

and it's also not like the business wouldn't exist at all if not for their gamble nope lol

You are being too fatalist tbh, as I told ya, if every owner died today, production would still be rolling normaly tomorrow, basically absolutely nothing changes. Catalonia actually increased production in many sectors and ended with unemployement once it got rid of owners of productive means.

"If you didn't want to join the collective you were given some land but only as much as you could work yourself. You were not allowed to employ workers. Not only production was affected, distribution was on the basis of what people needed. In many areas money was abolished. People come to the collective store (often churches which had been turned into warehouses) and got what was available. If there were shortages rationing would be introduced to ensure that everyone got their fair share. But it was usually the case that increased production under the new system eliminated shortages.

In agricultural terms the revolution occurred at a good time. Harvests that were gathered in and being sold off to make big profits for a few landowners were instead distributed to those in need. Doctors, bakers, barbers, etc. were given what they needed in return for their services. Where money was not abolished a 'family wage' was introduced so that payment was on the basis of need and not the number of hours worked.

Production greatly increased. Technicians and agronomists helped the peasants to make better use of the land. Modern scientific methods were introduced and in some areas yields increased by as much as 50%. There was enough to feed the collectivists and the militias in their areas. Often there was enough for exchange with other collectives in the cities for machinery. In addition food was handed over to the supply committees who looked after distribution in the urban areas."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia#1936_Revolution_and_worker.27s_self_management

Capitalism is so fucked up that, as you notice, to become a owner you first must lick the balls of a owner more powerful then you like bank owners lmao. Gud system tbh bik freedoms

@ToLazy4Name said:
Sorry bud, but i'll actually fucking die if I read any more shit about communism. I've read the Communist Manifesto and volume 1 of Das Kapital. I literally can't stomach any more of it.

Hahhaha I would actually be really fucking suprised if you had read the Communist Manifesto lmao. I mean you are indeed lazy as fuck! Didnt even want to read the thingy about three dee printers!

Anything that goes against what you think you simply refuse to read. I actually would be surprised if you even read this post! Which is quite a funny posture for someone who advocates so badly for freedom and shit tbh

Knight 5575 9321

You're allowed to enjoy the product of your gamble because it's your gamble. The business is yours and you won't turn a profit unless you're offering people something they want and are offering your workers a wage they're willing to work for. You can't become wealthy without yourself generating wealth. Also, if you're going to call me a liar then i'm not going to humor you in the slightest. Have you read Capitalism and Freedom? What about Basic Economics? How about any number of other books about the shit that I think is right that you probably haven't read and that I don't blame you for not reading? Don't tell me to read Marx and all this other arrogant shit and then tell me i'm a liar when I say I already have, especially when you're the one who had to fucking ask what the left and the right wings of politics even are. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or something like that.

Conscript 2643 2239
 vanguard

@ToLazy4Name said:
You're allowed to enjoy the product of your gamble because it's your gamble. The business is yours and you won't turn a profit unless you're offering people something they want

Yeah and you just gambled, you didn't produce anything, you offer the product but who actually makes the product? Why does this gamble and the fact you are offering something gives you the right to have more wealth then the people who actually works and produce shit?

and are offering your workers a wage they're willing to work for.

Not how it works actually. With a unemployed army at the backdoor and the threat of hunger caused by unemployment, people work in the most stupid conditions being paid fuckall in exchange just to keep living. Don't tell me you can't see this happening Lazy.

You can't become wealthy without yourself generating wealth.

You can actually generate a SHITLOAD of wealth without being wealthy at all though, and yes, you can simply own a thing and you are not effectively producing any wealth, because you aren't producing fuckall you just own shit! How does owning something = generating wealth? Who actually generates wealth in General Motors, the owner or the workers?

Also, if you're going to call me a liar then i'm not going to humor you in the slightest. Have you read Capitalism and Freedom? What about Basic Economics? How about any number of other books about the shit that I think is right that you probably haven't read and that I don't blame you for not reading? Don't tell me to read Marx and all this other arrogant shit and then tell me i'm a liar when I say I already have, especially when you're the one who had to fucking ask what the left and the right wings of politics even are. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or something like that.

Well fair point tbh. Then you read all that shit, ok, now I really dont get it; I mean, you have said that you actually have to pay a acceptable wage so workers are willing to work for you? If so, how then do you explain, you know, places who pay like shit and have shit conditions and still have people working there, and if the owner fire all of them, he still can hire more because there are people available, and then fire them all again, hire new people again etc (which usually actually happens with lower wages jobs)? How does your school of thought explains this phenomenon?

Unless you live in a fucking paralel universe where workers actually have full freedom to choose shit, and they chose to have shitty wages in fucked up jobs, which is something that makes zero sense. Who the fuck wants to have fucking stupid ass boss while being paid in shit, if not because the person actually needs the wage to survive?

Also I asked about american politics, not politics in general. I wanted to know how is the left and right wing in USA. And I told you to read those fuckery because by what you said in previous post it was glaring that you haven't read fuckall tbh fam, unless you were just trolling and shit. But then if you were trolling its your fault only lmao.

Just like when Mr Furst starts describing what is communism, its fucking obvious he haven't read it from the source, what he says doesn't come from critical thinking about what marx or any other communist theory is, you remember that post he said communism was about jews trying to make middle and lower class fuck with upper classes, so jews could become upper class? I mean... He could be trolling tough, idk now

Not trying to fuck with you here man, but you already said things on almost the same level, thus why I tell you cunts to go read that fucking shit, so at least you criticize better idk, you usually resort to "stealing my shit and no freedoms", which makes no fucking sense, followed by sarcasm and short ironic shitposts who make even less sense. Wtf do you expect me to say man "oh this man read about communism, such valid criticism 10/10 he know wtf he is talking about this is totally not what everyone who never had contact with it repeats about the subject". Most of the time even wiki was enough and didn't even had to resort to theories!

Knight 5575 9321

@vanguard said:
Well fair point tbh. Then you read all that shit, ok, now I really dont get it; I mean, you have said that you actually have to pay a acceptable wage so workers are willing to work for you? If so, how then do you explain, you know, places who pay like shit and have shit conditions and still have people working there, and if the owner fire all of them, he still can hire more because there are people available, and then fire them all again, hire new people again etc (which usually actually happens with lower wages jobs)? How does your school of thought explains this phenomenon?

Those people are unskilled and don't have other skills that they can offer for a higher wage. Typically, people in this situation are only there temporarily. Take McDonalds for example. In the USA (because I know this isn't the same everywhere due to the USA being more economically well off) there's an almost 100% turnover rate for McDonalds employees. The vast majority of people who go to work at McDonalds do so temporarily as their first job so they can acquire some skills and then move on to more gainful employment. The reason these people aren't paid alot is that they're not worth alot. If they were paid alot, the business would have to drastically raise its prices, and typically the business would then go out of business because no one wants to buy their shitty expensive product. People are in general paid in accordance with the wealth they generate, which is why someone who flips burgers isn't paid anywhere near the same amount as someone who performs life saving surgery.

Baron 1226 1595

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Monkeytoes said:
hence why they want to leave, cause theres no freedom

Sure, if your immigration system is set up in such a way that only those who genuinely want to escape their shitty country come to yours. Opening your borders entirely and telling immigrants they can live off of the tax payer does not encourage those who want to escape their shitty culture to come, it encourages lazy violent shitstains to come. If you tell immigrants that upon entering your country they're on their own and will either work or starve, then they'll come and work or they won't come at all.
This is why America has historically benefited from immigration while the EU currently is being swamped in violence and economic stagnation (though that stagnation comes from many other unrelated things as well).

USA has a higher crimerate than Europe
863px-Map_of_world_by_intentional_homicide_rate.svg[1].png

Knight 5575 9321

@Carlo_Mano said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Monkeytoes said:
hence why they want to leave, cause theres no freedom

Sure, if your immigration system is set up in such a way that only those who genuinely want to escape their shitty country come to yours. Opening your borders entirely and telling immigrants they can live off of the tax payer does not encourage those who want to escape their shitty culture to come, it encourages lazy violent shitstains to come. If you tell immigrants that upon entering your country they're on their own and will either work or starve, then they'll come and work or they won't come at all.
This is why America has historically benefited from immigration while the EU currently is being swamped in violence and economic stagnation (though that stagnation comes from many other unrelated things as well).

USA has a higher crimerate than Europe
863px-Map_of_world_by_intentional_homicide_rate.svg[1].png

And? Get back to me when you look at the crime rates before and after the """refugee""" crisis. If we're gonna discuss the crime rate of the USA then we can, but it's not at all related to my point about EU immigration policy.

Knight 3934 4008

i'm suprised to see Africa is pretty ok in the far north

Knight 5575 9321

@CaptainGaymer said:
i'm suprised to see Africa is pretty ok in the far north

Those are the countries that western nations generally interact with (Egypt, Libya, Algeria, etc).

Knight 3934 4008

the white man's burden isnt working out too well i see

Knight 5575 9321

@CaptainGaymer said:
the white man's burden isnt working out too well i see

You can thank people like Robert Mugabe for that tbh. There have been quite a few well off African nations following in the wake of various European empires, but most of them have been reduced to shitholes because people thought that the white man was evil incarnate and killed all of them only to realize that they were pretty ok and kept them from starving to death. Zimbabwe is the greatest example of this, back in the days of Rhodesia.

Knight 3934 4008

i will never not view robert memegabe as an idiot

Vr2pMe

still makes me kek

Knight 5575 9321

Mugabe was shocked to discover that when you kick out the only people who know how to farm, you end up starving to death. Truly an unpredictable result.

Baron 1226 1595
  • 7 Jan
 Carlo_Mano

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Carlo_Mano said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Monkeytoes said:
hence why they want to leave, cause theres no freedom

Sure, if your immigration system is set up in such a way that only those who genuinely want to escape their shitty country come to yours. Opening your borders entirely and telling immigrants they can live off of the tax payer does not encourage those who want to escape their shitty culture to come, it encourages lazy violent shitstains to come. If you tell immigrants that upon entering your country they're on their own and will either work or starve, then they'll come and work or they won't come at all.
This is why America has historically benefited from immigration while the EU currently is being swamped in violence and economic stagnation (though that stagnation comes from many other unrelated things as well).

USA has a higher crimerate than Europe
863px-Map_of_world_by_intentional_homicide_rate.svg[1].png

And? Get back to me when you look at the crime rates before and after the """refugee""" crisis. If we're gonna discuss the crime rate of the USA then we can, but it's not at all related to my point about EU immigration policy.

That was my answer to that part
"This is why America has historically benefited from immigration while the EU currently is being swamped in violence"

Knight 5575 9321

It's a false equivalency. America's crime rate isn't high because of immigration and it certainly hasn't rapidly spiked due to immigration, unlike in the EU where crime spiked dramatically following the start of the refugee crisis.

Baron 1226 1595
  • 7 Jan
 Carlo_Mano

Why don't you post a link showing that dramatic crime spike?

Knight 5575 9321

Why don't you google the numbers yourself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOkRfYHYJU8

Baroness 6089 6972
  • 7 Jan
 Sammy

dictatorship

Baron 1226 1595
  • 7 Jan
 Carlo_Mano

@ToLazy4Name said:
Why don't you google the numbers yourself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOkRfYHYJU8

This is not numbers, it is a very subjective video. Then again, I suppose that's the type of infos they get in Trump-Land