Mordhau

Why is "toxicity" said to be such an issue when there is a client-side mute?

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This thread raises a very new and very original question that totally hasn't been asked and answered a hundred times before. I applaud Rergato for his creativity and dedication to get to the bottom of all of this.

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I don't care about the chat. But some people go a bit far in mordhau community.
While I'm for freedom of speech, I'm also for good mannered behaviour in online communities. hint hint
I'm insulting people on a regular basis but I'm not involving family, race but still calling them a bitch. If you find that sexist, sorry, but then you could start sending letters to a million rappers around the world before coming to me please.

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  • 4 Jul
 Layla

Because it is about pushing an agenda and not about anything else.

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  • 4 Jul
 rockscl

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

Taking offense is a subjective thing, you just want to draw a line accordingly to your personal tastes and force everyone beyond to be removed , muting IS a solution, you can literally stop receiving the messages from whoever you want, but instead you want to deprive everyone else from listening to that single person you dont like.

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  • 4 Jul
 Unlikely

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

Can you name some repercussions of word filters?

It would consume developer time, which we know is extremely limited, and would not solve the problem. Not a spectacular repercussion, just a big opportunity cost. Some we would value more, would be delayed.

Makes more sense to spend the effort on a better in-game reporting system, so the moderators get the information they need to do their jobs.

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  • 4 Jul
 Sninctbur

Because the people who are mad about it don't just want to not hear the toxicity; they want it not to exist in the first place. They will not stop until divine retribution has smitten those who speak the N-word in vain.

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 smug

@Unlikely said:
@TheKingInTheNorth said:

Can you name some repercussions of word filters?

It would consume developer time, which we know is extremely limited, and would not solve the problem. Not a spectacular repercussion, just a big opportunity cost. Some we would value more, would be delayed.

Makes more sense to spend the effort on a better in-game reporting system, so the moderators get the information they need to do their jobs.

You think a reporting system would take less effort than coding a simple word filter?

Just how dumb do you think Trit's programmers are? They literally already have a working filter system it's called Motivational Mute.

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  • 4 Jul
 Cadiz

@smug said:
Just how dumb do you think Trit's programmers are? They literally already have a working filter system it's called Motivational Mute.

I completely forgot that was a thing. What an entertaining way to mute trolls.

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  • 4 Jul
 Unlikely

@smug

You think a reporting system would take less effort than coding a simple word filter?

Not at all. I just think the simple word filter would be wasted effort, so why not have the effort go into something valuable?

Just how dumb do you think Trit's programmers are? They literally already have a working filter system it's called Motivational Mute.

I think they're smart.

Motivational Mute is a fun gimmick, but it's not a filter. It just replaces all chat messages from a given player. A filter would have to block something, and let something else through. Discriminating what to block and what to let through is a hard problem to solve. It's an impossible problem to solve, if you've got an adversary trying to get around the filter. Hence my statement that it would be wasted development effort.

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Toxic chat is only an aspect of "toxicity". It's a symptom of a garbage community, which many of us don't want to be a part of. And it should be in the interest of game companies to keep civil, inclusive communities. Sorry if not being able to spam racial slurs in a video game is having such a chilling effect on your positive freedom of speech.

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  • 4 Jul
 smug

@Unlikely said:
@smug

You think a reporting system would take less effort than coding a simple word filter?

Not at all. I just think the simple word filter would be wasted effort, so why not have the effort go into something valuable?

Just how dumb do you think Trit's programmers are? They literally already have a working filter system it's called Motivational Mute.

I think they're smart.

Motivational Mute is a fun gimmick, but it's not a filter.

What?

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  • 4 Jul
 Unlikely

@smug said:

@Unlikely said:
Motivational Mute is a fun gimmick, but it's not a filter.

What?

It isn't a filter because it isn't selective. It just replaces everything a player says in chat, with something else. The muted player is as good as silenced for the duration, if you're willing to manually switch it on for each player misbehaving in chat.

When people here talk about "a filter," they mean something that will automatically, selectively block racial slurs and such. Not the same thing at all. And as you've heard several times over, it wouldn't solve the problem. So why bother building it at all?

Mercenary 1120 2042

@Cadiz said:
But this is so much harder than all of that.

It doesn't solve the problem is what we're saying bud.

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@SWSeriousMike said:
This thread raises a very new and very original question that totally hasn't been asked and answered a hundred times before. I applaud Rergato for his creativity and dedication to get to the bottom of all of this.

so then answer it again.
you expect us to answer you all the time, maybe BE the example, if you want to set an example, ye know...

when your side (pro censorship) bring up your arguments, it always gets shat on instantly when you're told you already got the tools to deal with it on your end in the game itself, by using the various mute options... and that's when it devolves into some skewed version of "oh but i wan't other people not to be able to see what they are saying as well" and that's where everyone gets off the train, because that's tyranny and blatant censorship/deplatforming based on what you subjectively feel about what a given individual is saying in your direct vicinity.. hell, i'm sure you've reported people for using bad words plenty of times before even if they weren't talking to you personally.. i would not be surprised.

can't you just deal with your own problems on your own? why do you have to take on this white knight role and even presume people would just agree with you by default? that's clearly not the case as you can see here.

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@smug said:

@Unlikely said:
@TheKingInTheNorth said:

Can you name some repercussions of word filters?

It would consume developer time, which we know is extremely limited, and would not solve the problem. Not a spectacular repercussion, just a big opportunity cost. Some we would value more, would be delayed.

Makes more sense to spend the effort on a better in-game reporting system, so the moderators get the information they need to do their jobs.

You think a reporting system would take less effort than coding a simple word filter?

Just how dumb do you think Trit's programmers are? They literally already have a working filter system it's called Motivational Mute.

why exactly is that motivational mute word filter not enough? oh right, because its not default for everyone, so someone else might still be seeing naughty words.. therein lies the problem i suppose.. thanks for admitting that indirectly.

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 Ethan

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

Can you explain to me how me muting a player for calling me a bad name is crippling ME? I don’t get this argument. It’s like saying , “no, don’t block or unfriend that person harassing you. Just let them harass you because the rules of the platform state it’s against the rules to harass others... they’ll get em!”

Mute IS a solution. Mute is a mighty fine solution. You know, it’s such a good solution that about 10000 games have launched with player VOICE CHAT lobbies with a neat little feature called mute.

It was in every COD. It was in all the Halos on Xbox I believe. Any game that has a VOP or team voice chat has a mute feature.

Muting another player so you don’t have to hear whatever they have to save IS a valid solution. If you think that “cripples” the player, then fine, but that is a solid solution.

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 Clyde

@concubicycle said:
Toxic chat is only an aspect of "toxicity". It's a symptom of a garbage community, which many of us don't want to be a part of. And it should be in the interest of game companies to keep civil, inclusive communities. Sorry if not being able to spam racial slurs in a video game is having such a chilling effect on your positive freedom of speech.

We are a part of the community that have already formed our own decisions of decency, without you from the days of chivalry to rising storm steam players universally despise this type of shit. if you don't want to be a part of it you can stop playing the game. I don't want to play with people like yourself. I want to play in a game and community where people can say what they want and act how they want, that is exclusive to people like you who want to control the topics of discussion tone of discussion and words used and will not budge on this.

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 Ethan

@concubicycle said:
Toxic chat is only an aspect of "toxicity". It's a symptom of a garbage community, which many of us don't want to be a part of. And it should be in the interest of game companies to keep civil, inclusive communities. Sorry if not being able to spam racial slurs in a video game is having such a chilling effect on your positive freedom of speech.

But there are already a few options YOU have

  1. Mute
  2. Mute and report
  3. Mute and report directly to the devs in discord who WILL ban them with proof
  4. Mute and report them to steam and report them to mordhau developers

I agree with you it’s a symptom of toxicity in the community, but that doesn’t mean the community is lost. Since day 1 the devs have taken this seriously, as well as cheating.

Would you rather a word filter that gets more people upset ( even if not rightfully so ) and have the same word pop up, with ** to “cover it up” , or would you rather right click* mute and report..

This is all just kinda dumb. I focus on chopping heads off of bodies, not the chat.

Edit : for the record. A word filter DOES make it better for twitch streamers. Just throwing that out there.

Sadly a SMALL group of people may give the mordhau community a bad rep, despite the Mordhau community being damn awesome IMO !

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@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
can't you just deal with your own problems on your own? why do you have to take on this white knight role and even presume people would just agree with you by default? that's clearly not the case as you can see here.

  • Why is it always people bragging about their immense tolerance that accuse me of virtue signaling?
  • Why is it always those coming in to defend full-time assholes that accuse me of being a white knight?
  • Why is it always those that write about how much they would kill to defend the rights they never had (the right to be heard by everyone, the right to be an asshole without consequences, etc.) that accuse me of being a social justice WARRIOR?
  • Why is it always those that presume a lot about me that accuse me of various presumptions out of the blue?
  • Why is it always those that take out their problems on others in forums and game chats, those that can't write a single post without adding an insult that claim I had problems I can't deal with on my own?

Could it be you are just hypocrites?
If you can't deal with the shit in your life, then seek help. Trying to make others as miserable as you are won't work.

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  • 5 Jul
 smokratez

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
can't you just deal with your own problems on your own? why do you have to take on this white knight role and even presume people would just agree with you by default? that's clearly not the case as you can see here.

  • Why is it always people bragging about their immense tolerance that accuse me of virtue signaling?
  • Why is it always those coming in to defend full-time assholes that accuse me of being a white knight?
  • Why is it always those that write about how much they would kill to defend the rights they never had (the right to be heard by everyone, the right to be an asshole without consequences, etc.) that accuse me of being a social justice WARRIOR?
  • Why is it always those that presume a lot about me that accuse me of various presumptions out of the blue?
  • Why is it always those that take out their problems on others in forums and game chats, those that can't write a single post without adding an insult that claim I had problems I can't deal with on my own?

Could it be you are just hypocrites?
If you can't deal with the shit in your life, then seek help. Trying to make others as miserable as you are won't work.

Those who want to censor others do so because they are jealous about not being able to express their own emotions as well.