Mordhau

Why is "toxicity" said to be such an issue when there is a client-side mute?

1757 1412
 Rergato

Not to mention, the game doesn't even have voice-chat.
How in the hell are people hurting other's feelings?

31 39
  • 3 Jul
 Plumstar

Yea idk, kind of bizarre

Knight 7646 14035

Because these people don't want to be responsible for their own actions and just want a higher authority to take care of it for them.

also because they are mad and badpilled

60 178
  • 3 Jul
 Clyde

Because people want power for their side to control speech. They say it's not political, but it is. You can't have centralized censorship without human beings doing it, and they will be mostly staffed or volunteers who want to wield power to control speech and narratives. They want to wield power this has happened before, we've seen it in every other internet space on the internet, or real life and its why the left has so much power online and off because they take it. No ones falling for it everyone sees it.

Mercenary 1119 2040

Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

31 39
 Plumstar

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

Actual braindead response tbh, chat isn't crippled in a 64 or even 16 player server by muting a few people.

Mercenary 1119 2040

@Plumstar said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

Actual braindead response tbh, chat isn't crippled in a 64 or even 16 player server by muting people.

Disabling chat is often mentioned as an option. But even muting one person puts the responsibility on the person being abused. That's retarded and if you think about it I'm sure you would agree.

31 39
  • 3 Jul
 Plumstar

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@Plumstar said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

Actual braindead response tbh, chat isn't crippled in a 64 or even 16 player server by muting people.

Disabling chat is often mentioned as an option. But even muting one person puts the responsibility on the person being abused. That's retarded and if you think about it I'm sure you would agree.

The responsibility is on the abused regardless. They have to report, mute, disable chat, complain to admins, etc. What better alternative is there? Turning mordhau servers into a police state? A word filter? An auto-ban system for saying slurs?

63 43
  • 3 Jul
 Cadiz

Of course you have the responsibility to mute people if you don't want to hear them. Would you rather everyone be muted at the beginning of the game and you have to manually unmute them all? A reporting system that a small dev team like the creators of this game would have to create and moderate (somehow) and probably end up being abused by one side or another? I personally would rather it be easier to mute people. Hitting tab, having access to right click on the name of the player you want to mute comes to mind, but that's an actual solution so I doubt you're interested.

Knight 7646 14035

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

How is muting them removing chat? You're removing them from the chat.

Mercenary 1119 2040

@ToLazy4Name said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

How is muting them removing chat? You're removing them from the chat.

I was primarily talking about the people suggesting to turn off chat completely.

Mercenary 1119 2040

@Cadiz said:
Of course you have the responsibility to mute people if you don't want to hear them. Would you rather everyone be muted at the beginning of the game and you have to manually unmute them all? A reporting system that a small dev team like the creators of this game would have to create and moderate (somehow) and probably end up being abused by one side or another? I personally would rather it be easier to mute people. Hitting tab, having access to right click on the name of the player you want to mute comes to mind, but that's an actual solution so I doubt you're interested.

These guys are breaking rules already in place, and instead of proper moderation we're expected to just mute them ourselves. A proper reporting system would go a long way. That way the problem doesn't persist. Muting doesn't make the abuser stop.

63 43
 Cadiz

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
These guys are breaking rules already in place, and instead of proper moderation we're expected to just mute them ourselves. A proper reporting system would go a long way. That way the problem doesn't persist. Muting doesn't make the abuser stop.

If an internet tough guy calls someone a faggot but their "victim" never reads it because the "victim" muted them, are they doing harm to that person or are they just looking like a jackass?

I'd also like to see the rules you're talking about. I never read them.

Mercenary 1119 2040

@Cadiz said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
These guys are breaking rules already in place, and instead of proper moderation we're expected to just mute them ourselves. A proper reporting system would go a long way. That way the problem doesn't persist. Muting doesn't make the abuser stop.

If an internet tough guy calls someone a faggot but their "victim" never reads it because the "victim" muted them, are they doing harm to that person or are they just looking like a jackass?

I'd also like to see the rules you're talking about. I never read them.

No, once he realises he's muted he just targets someone else. That's the problem with no repercussions for the offender. He's allowed to go on bothering others. A proper reporting system would fix this. I don't want to ban people permanently just for being edgy either. I'm thinking of the Xbox Live model where reports are checked by a mod and, if deemed against the rules, punished starting with 1 day bans, increasing in duration each time until you get banned too many times and you're gone for good.

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/2010/forum-rules/?page=1

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/14506/mordhau-official-server-rules/

Knight 46 67

A lot of people are missing the point that the articles are trying to get at, thinking they're just liberal trash pushing an agenda. Even giving these folks the benefit of the doubt, it should be in their interest to have at least some filtering and a functioning report system.

The reason this is a problem is because it hurts player retention, and is especially harmful for hooking new players in.
A new player is often goign to struggle, probably new tot he genre, and has 2 hours to decide if he likes the game before his refund window is up. He sees he isn't good at the game, but maybe is learning a few things. however, chat is the tipping point when he sees a couple people dropping racial slurs like it's going out of style and he abandons the game or refunds it. It also can give the impression the devs don't give a flying fuck about keeping the community clean and fun when they're so hands off. Where if chat was at least somewhat moderated a player on the fence may be more likely to stick around and keep learning, and might even find a new passion for the genre as they improve.

In the long term it would slow down how fast the playercount bleeds, and extends the logngevity of the game.
If you like a multiplayer game, don't you tell your friends? Friends buying a copy of the game keeps the money flowing for devs, and again helps bolster the playercount if they stay. Even if a lot of people here are conservative or just plain raging racist assholes, if they like the game they should support it being welcoming even to more sensitive people. This silly and smooth slasher game is fun, but being able to spout hateful garbage into chat shouldn't be a selling point for any game.

If losing that would make someone quit the game and wanta refund they can fuck off.

PS: Free speech doesn't cover private services either, it's about the government not being able to put someone in jail for what they say. A company can kick you off it's messageboards for being a toxic jerk as it is offering a service that is has the right to take away when misused. Chat filters in videogames are not true censorship.

Mercenary 84 107
 VCliff

I do think that a PvP gamemode with 64 players will always be full of degenerates.

But the issue is that alot of new/casual players will be off put when the see some holocaust denier or constant racial spam/bait in chat. And we kinda want to keep these people since we need food. Mute again solves the issue, but if you have to mute mutiple people it kinda gets depressing, not to mention that every player in the server has to deal with it.
Its a really good solution if youre specifically harassed or for the one salt driven slur barrage from a Rank 15.

The underlying problem is that we have offical rules, but no one gives rats ass since they cant be enforced by Jax alone.
This kinda unwilling laissez faire approach essentially gives a free pass to all the trolls/edgelords/retards in the community to just go ham, which is reflected in the in-game chat, the subreddit and sometimes here. Which again, can drive normal people away from the game.

Edit: Gramzon beat me to it in a much better post.

1757 1412
  • 3 Jul
 Rergato

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
No, once he realises he's muted he just targets someone else.

And that's why there's a kick feature, you numskull.

22 45
  • 3 Jul
 Doogla

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Nice collection of stawmen from people that don't hold the position they're talking about lol. I'm one of the people that doesn't think mute is a solution since it cripples the person being abused instead of the one doing the abusing. It's an extremely BAD solution to pander to the people causing the problem by making their target remove a feature of the game (chat) rather than just banning the people doing it for their offence, which is often already against the rules 'officially' anyway.

You can mute individual people too so you can still enjoy chat while muting the people offending you. You don’t need more than that.

22 45
 Doogla

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@Cadiz said:
Of course you have the responsibility to mute people if you don't want to hear them. Would you rather everyone be muted at the beginning of the game and you have to manually unmute them all? A reporting system that a small dev team like the creators of this game would have to create and moderate (somehow) and probably end up being abused by one side or another? I personally would rather it be easier to mute people. Hitting tab, having access to right click on the name of the player you want to mute comes to mind, but that's an actual solution so I doubt you're interested.

These guys are breaking rules already in place, and instead of proper moderation we're expected to just mute them ourselves. A proper reporting system would go a long way. That way the problem doesn't persist. Muting doesn't make the abuser stop.

What if other people don’t want the “abuser” to stop? I’ve seen some really entertaining people in chat that were less than politically correct. But because you don’t like the content of someone’s chat, it’s not enough that you can turn it off for yourself, you want it turned off for everyone.

How can you not see how absurd and childish that is?

39 150

@GramzontheDragon said:

PS: Free speech doesn't cover private services either, it's about the government not being able to put someone in jail for what they say. A company can kick you off it's messageboards for being a toxic jerk as it is offering a service that is has the right to take away when misused. Chat filters in videogames are not true censorship.

Free speech is nothing to do with governmental restriction of speech. The US example, in their constitution, sets a limit on how freedom of speech is to be approached by government, it doesn't actually grant freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is a human right. It's a fundamental cornerstone of a free society. This "Neo-Freedom of Speech" that gets bandied about the internet is cancer and an enemy of a free society.