This concept was brought forth by one of our developers and posted prior to the game’s release as a response to a large number of heated debates regarding the topic of realism.
@TheKingInTheNorth said:
The toggle idea was a direct response to dudes demanding that women not be added. You can dress it up by saying 'well, you can also toggle just females' but that's not really the point. How many people have you seen asking for this game to be females only?
Obviously I agree, the toggle's existence stems from the women complaint. I mention the all females element because it allows for the realism crowd to have their cake and gives those that want maximum "video game cheat code tomato dress up sillyness" more ways to have fun as well. I fundamentally disagree with implementing it because a large part of customisation is how others perceive you as well as yourself.
They throw race in there because, in case you missed it all these years you've been here, it's a bit of an issue in this community and especially on the forums (particularly pre-politics ban, but it's still not moderated that strictly).
Can you find any examples of blatant racism? I've seen them and they get removed by the moderators
@Cynath said:
What would have been so wrong with a toggle to hide women? At least in FH they are done in a way they are barely different than male characters and usually covered with armor, whereas here I bet it will be a bunch of half naked chicks running around.
You mean free kills? You can one shot no armor. I'm looking forward to the ez kills.
@TheKingInTheNorth said:
The toggle idea was a direct response to dudes demanding that women not be added. You can dress it up by saying 'well, you can also toggle just females' but that's not really the point. How many people have you seen asking for this game to be females only?
Obviously I agree, the toggle's existence stems from the women complaint. I mention the all females element because it allows for the realism crowd to have their cake and gives those that want maximum "video game cheat code tomato dress up sillyness" more ways to have fun as well. I fundamentally disagree with implementing it because a large part of customisation is how others perceive you as well as yourself.
They throw race in there because, in case you missed it all these years you've been here, it's a bit of an issue in this community and especially on the forums (particularly pre-politics ban, but it's still not moderated that strictly).
Can you find any examples of blatant racism? I've seen them and they get removed by the moderators
Politics containment thread, post things that made you laugh thread before politics containment thread was created, the discussion threads about black people in mordhau (just the fact that they exist is enough tbh) etc.
It's true that the months prior to release and after release has seen an increase of bans for this kind of behaviour, and it's a good development that they're doing more (instead of back then when they literally did nothing).
@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Rampant toxicity has been a problem and, for quite some time, even actively allowed on the forums. The biggest criticism I have is that you didn't seem to care then since there were an insignificant amount of people, even when warned about the bad PR this would inevitably cause. But I'm glad you released this statement and I just praise Jebus every day that the media haven't found certain threads that will not be named here yet.
Perhaps it would be fair to say that while words are nice there is a significant lack of action. Rectifying a PR disaster is all well and good, but these discussions are in the end all hypothetical. Nothing of what is described above even exists yet, possibly never will. But the community is very much real and I think in the end being 'spread thin' is a valid reason to have a slow turnover rate, but it is not a valid reason to be tight-lipped about what the plan is.
There seems to be no adequate reason why basic moderation efforts can't be increased, at the very least, on the forums. Moderation is hard, but moderators are free. There is really nothing in the way of making the forums, discord, and other social media platforms have heightened standards even if the in-game solution is further away.
I personally would be happy to see other-than-white ethnicities added together with some middle eastern expansion. There is no need to add for example black people without larger context. Quite frankly I also wouldn’t be happy to see women in Mordhau. I think it would just not fit in. Also, let boys be boys pls.
@Cynath said:
What would have been so wrong with a toggle to hide women? At least in FH they are done in a way they are barely different than male characters and usually covered with armor, whereas here I bet it will be a bunch of half naked chicks running around.
People who play like that and do waifu shit will all be low tier casuals anyway, walking health packs more or less.
@dustytretch said:
What about crush responding to a post on the steam forums post-release citing realism as a reason for a client-side toggle for female models?
It is explained in the statement, the idea was thrown out months ago and the recent press articles have nothing to do with this decision.
Sorry, made a mistake with the dates and have edited my comment to reflect this
This is unfortunate. Pc Gamer did the interview? You should let your team know for next interview not to be afraid to say they don’t know. Better than to assume of gender/race toggle implementation. Keep up the good work guys, yeah it pretty hard to maintain big groups of players. You’ll get it figured out I’m sure. :)
Quick note: I don't support/condone toxic/racist behaviour anywhere, now with that said...
If you don't want to see/read toxic/racist things in the chat, then the solution is simple, just hide the chat box. Out of sight, out of mind. Actually just go ahead & hide the kill feed & the killed by boxes too. The game is much less distracting & much more enjoyable with all 3 things turned off.
Now, potential issue/toxic/racist behaviour you probably won't be able to ignore are players on your team or the enemy team that decide to single you out, for how your character looks or for what gender you decide to play as.
Trolls will be trolls, toxic players will be toxic, & as evidenced in other multiplayer games made by triple-A & indie studios alike, it's hard to completely irradicate toxic behaviour in games because those kind of players will just come up with inventive ways to get around whatever system is in place.
I'm sorry these damned media outlets are attacking you guys. You really don't deserve this. You guys just keep doing what you believe and us real fans will keep playing because in the end we turn on Mordhau to PLAY, not to signal our virtue!
I would like that the people had freedom of choice when they play Mordhau, allowing total customization of what you see in the game for further historical immersion.
I understand it's very complex and probably not worth the effort, considering they could put such efforts in adding more maps, content, etc.
Still, I'd like that. So, If you wanted, you could play the game where everyone looks viking. Or medieval europe-style. Or Rennaisance style. Or everyone is a man. Or a woman. Or white. Or black. Or have it all mixed.
I'd like freedom to customize how you see the game, so everyone could change it to whatever they rather seeing.
I don't like people trying to impose on others whaty they have to have in their game included, what to see, what to say, how to say, etc.
The gender toggle thing was poorly handled. It was not long ago that you guys were saying it was basically confirmed. Still, good job not backing down in the face of this nonsense and good job with this statement.
Now nerf javelins, fix shields, remove crossroads, add female characters AND MAKE ME AN ADMIN
@ChadThundercock said:
Why do indie teams always bow to attention seeking, SJW bloggers and authors?
No spine
They're not bowing at all, things like women and non-white characters was planned from the beginning. The "outrage" comes from a misunderstanding. If anything the discussion on toggles were them bowing to sensitive incels who cant handle seeing people that dont look like them in a video-game.
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3 Jul '19
DegeneracyCrush did nothing wrong!
3 Jul '19
StoutyObviously I agree, the toggle's existence stems from the women complaint. I mention the all females element because it allows for the realism crowd to have their cake and gives those that want maximum "video game cheat code tomato dress up sillyness" more ways to have fun as well. I fundamentally disagree with implementing it because a large part of customisation is how others perceive you as well as yourself.
Can you find any examples of blatant racism? I've seen them and they get removed by the moderators
3 Jul '19
Sir BoringYou mean free kills? You can one shot no armor. I'm looking forward to the ez kills.
3 Jul '19
TheKingInTheNorthPolitics containment thread, post things that made you laugh thread before politics containment thread was created, the discussion threads about black people in mordhau (just the fact that they exist is enough tbh) etc.
It's true that the months prior to release and after release has seen an increase of bans for this kind of behaviour, and it's a good development that they're doing more (instead of back then when they literally did nothing).
3 Jul '19
CatRPerhaps it would be fair to say that while words are nice there is a significant lack of action. Rectifying a PR disaster is all well and good, but these discussions are in the end all hypothetical. Nothing of what is described above even exists yet, possibly never will. But the community is very much real and I think in the end being 'spread thin' is a valid reason to have a slow turnover rate, but it is not a valid reason to be tight-lipped about what the plan is.
There seems to be no adequate reason why basic moderation efforts can't be increased, at the very least, on the forums. Moderation is hard, but moderators are free. There is really nothing in the way of making the forums, discord, and other social media platforms have heightened standards even if the in-game solution is further away.
Transparency, etcetera etcetera.
3 Jul '19
MaciLmao is all I can say to this
3 Jul '19
JubilantKnightI personally would be happy to see other-than-white ethnicities added together with some middle eastern expansion. There is no need to add for example black people without larger context. Quite frankly I also wouldn’t be happy to see women in Mordhau. I think it would just not fit in. Also, let boys be boys pls.
Keep up good work!
3 Jul '19
RunagatePeople who play like that and do waifu shit will all be low tier casuals anyway, walking health packs more or less.
3 Jul '19
dustytretchSorry, made a mistake with the dates and have edited my comment to reflect this
3 Jul '19
Lord Commander GutsThis is unfortunate. Pc Gamer did the interview? You should let your team know for next interview not to be afraid to say they don’t know. Better than to assume of gender/race toggle implementation. Keep up the good work guys, yeah it pretty hard to maintain big groups of players. You’ll get it figured out I’m sure. :)
Love you guys,
Grandpa Guts aka Amerifat
- 1
3 Jul '19
de.tailQuick note: I don't support/condone toxic/racist behaviour anywhere, now with that said...
If you don't want to see/read toxic/racist things in the chat, then the solution is simple, just hide the chat box. Out of sight, out of mind. Actually just go ahead & hide the kill feed & the killed by boxes too. The game is much less distracting & much more enjoyable with all 3 things turned off.
Now, potential issue/toxic/racist behaviour you probably won't be able to ignore are players on your team or the enemy team that decide to single you out, for how your character looks or for what gender you decide to play as.
Trolls will be trolls, toxic players will be toxic, & as evidenced in other multiplayer games made by triple-A & indie studios alike, it's hard to completely irradicate toxic behaviour in games because those kind of players will just come up with inventive ways to get around whatever system is in place.
3 Jul '19
OutlawStarI'm sorry these damned media outlets are attacking you guys. You really don't deserve this. You guys just keep doing what you believe and us real fans will keep playing because in the end we turn on Mordhau to PLAY, not to signal our virtue!
3 Jul '19
StallttThere has really been a lot of toxicity these past few days. Most of it from people over-eager to witch hunt and craft tenuous incendiary narratives.
3 Jul '19
EsotericmachineIm glad to hear a response about all this, a team of 11 dealing with over a million players is a nightmare.
3 Jul '19
BasedPatriotI guess server admins will just have to ban players who play as women/minorities to enforce realism....
3 Jul '19
DrengiI would like that the people had freedom of choice when they play Mordhau, allowing total customization of what you see in the game for further historical immersion.
I understand it's very complex and probably not worth the effort, considering they could put such efforts in adding more maps, content, etc.
Still, I'd like that. So, If you wanted, you could play the game where everyone looks viking. Or medieval europe-style. Or Rennaisance style. Or everyone is a man. Or a woman. Or white. Or black. Or have it all mixed.
I'd like freedom to customize how you see the game, so everyone could change it to whatever they rather seeing.
I don't like people trying to impose on others whaty they have to have in their game included, what to see, what to say, how to say, etc.
I'm for the respect of the individual freedom.
- 2
3 Jul '19
ToLazy4NameThe gender toggle thing was poorly handled. It was not long ago that you guys were saying it was basically confirmed. Still, good job not backing down in the face of this nonsense and good job with this statement.
Now nerf javelins, fix shields, remove crossroads, add female characters AND MAKE ME AN ADMIN
3 Jul '19
ChadThundercockWhy do indie teams always bow to attention seeking, SJW bloggers and authors?
No spine
3 Jul '19
ToLazy4NameWhere did they bow to them lmao
3 Jul '19
PureUncutIdeologyThey're not bowing at all, things like women and non-white characters was planned from the beginning. The "outrage" comes from a misunderstanding. If anything the discussion on toggles were them bowing to sensitive incels who cant handle seeing people that dont look like them in a video-game.