Mordhau

Kicking/Banning Toxic ppl has nothing to do with SJW or Political Correctness.

93 109
  • 20 Jul '19
 DefendinMyBase

No, that's not No True Scotsman. It'd maybe be valid if he claimed Warframe was a farming simulator not a video game, but then that'd just be illogical as well.

Warframe isn't toxic because it's PvE and the only rage inducing thing that can happen is a party wipe, even then, I've not really known people in any kind of Horde style game to be toxic. From Gears to Mass Effect to Warthunder, so I don't disagree with him on that.
PvP is intensely toxic and the more margin for error either on the user's part or especially the party's part that can cause the whole thing to crumble makes people salty as fuck. Examples being World of Warcraft, specially Rogues, Healers, and Tanks are breeding grounds for rage. Any Dotalike, because one feeding bastard can throw a game for you. Any Twitch shooter where "I TOTALLY SHOT HIM WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!" Mordhau and Chivalry for being "FUCKING FEINTING BASTARD" or "GODDAMN TEAMMATE KILLING ME" or so on and so forth. Really tons of reasons to get salty and by nature be "toxic" that you just don't get in an AI genocide simulator.

It's not a fallacy, it's really Apples to Oranges, and the example of Warframe is frankly not applicable for this discussion. Borderline singleplayer games, I mean you CAN play that style of game completely solo, after all, just don't fit into a discussion about actual player versus player multiplayer. Very different kinds of player bases and intent. Competition breeds salt, and at the same time attracts salty people.

64 35

@CatR said:

@ShapiroLibtardsDieTwice said:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ShapiroLibtardsDieTwice said:
I've already provided evidence with Rainbow Six, mind you, that game has a bigger dev team and budget. Toxic communities will always be toxic.

Then I provide opposing evidence with Warframe. A game that has grown since all chat was moderated.

I played Warframe for 400 hours. I never have encountered an instance of toxicity, It had developers that were active, fair, and always communicated with the community. Yes, THERE IS moderation, but toxicity in a farming game is so low that there are only a few instances in global chat, which gets shut down immediately. the moderator system was reformed. Why does this game not have toxicity? because of moderation, because of a good community and good developers

Why did they even bother when moderation is useless?

I suggest that you watch a few videos concerning the controversy around the moderators and Guides of the Lotus program. It was mainly a moderator developer problem and not a player issue. This happened months back however so I do not know how the game is faring at the moment in regards to its moderators, but I have to assume it has gotten better.

1907 1995
  • 1
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

You have no objective measure for toxicity and there is no control group. It's completely dishonest to always drag another game into this and claiming that chat filters and moderation don't help. Only when I do the same you suddenly acknowledge that correlation isn't causation.
This whole fiasco is a community made problem. Chat filters and moderation aren't considered because of people like me. If only people like me played this game there was no need for that - not even for a mute function. So when someone has right to be pissed about the waste of money put into this then it is me - not you. Stop hurting the game please.

247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@esturias said:

@PPeebs said:
The only reason you want to ban people is because the things they say offend you.
Well, the things you're asking for, offend me.
By that logic, why can't the Devs just ban you?

That's nonsensical, wrong and it doesn't answer the question. Try again.

  1. how is it nonsensical
  2. how is it wrong
  3. he wasn't answering your question, he was calling out your behavior and hinting at the devs that you people are the real villains of this story, which you objectively are, since promoting censorship goes hand in hand with fascism, which is ironic since you refer to "us" as the fascists... yes, promoting freedom of speech is absolutely hitler.
247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Dialectic said:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Dialectic said:
Saying someone lacks the spine to support tolerance is presumptive and inflammatory. Why should I take your position if you treat me with such toxicity?

I also called you anti-intellectual and dishonest. And you seem fine with proving me right instead of denying it.

Do you find it ironic that the ones arguing for chat regulations are often "toxic" to people they disagree with?

And again...

again; what??
answer the fucking question.

247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:
You have no objective measure for toxicity and there is no control group. It's completely dishonest to always drag another game into this and claiming that chat filters and moderation don't help. Only when I do the same you suddenly acknowledge that correlation isn't causation.
This whole fiasco is a community made problem. Chat filters and moderation aren't considered because of people like me. If only people like me played this game there was no need for that - not even for a mute function. So when someone has right to be pissed about the waste of money put into this then it is me - not you. Stop hurting the game please.

i absolutely disagree.. your presence on these forums are the only thing speaking FOR censorship of chat/forums in my personal opinion.
so you got that going for you... you've managed to somewhat bring me over to your side by your own toxicity alone. well done!

1907 1995
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

Stop bullshitting and I stop calling you out for it.

It's nice of you to finally admit that isn't about ideals for you, but just about choosing a side.

247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:
Stop bullshitting and I stop calling you out for it.

It's nice of you to finally admit that isn't about ideals for you, but just about choosing a side.

i didn't say any such thing, i said your presence was the one point of argumentation i could use if i were ever to promote censorship.
but since i am not a faggot, you can keep dreaming... the best argument you've made in favor of censoring people so far, has been your very existence alone.
needless to say i don't like you, and i don't think there's a lot of people here that does.

1907 1995
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
promoting censorship goes hand in hand with fascism

-

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
i absolutely disagree.. your presence on these forums are the only thing speaking FOR censorship of chat/forums in my personal opinion.
so you got that going for you... you've managed to somewhat bring me over to your side by your own toxicity alone. well done!

247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
promoting censorship goes hand in hand with fascism

-

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
i absolutely disagree.. your presence on these forums are the only thing speaking FOR censorship of chat/forums in my personal opinion.
so you got that going for you... you've managed to somewhat bring me over to your side by your own toxicity alone. well done!

what are those quotes suppose to tell readers? i said censorship goes hand in hand with fascism and that you as a person are the only thing that makes me want censorship enforced
this is obviously a joke, hint hint; i wouldn't want censorship even if it meant we got rid of you.

what part of that is 'bullshitting' and 'admission of choosing sides'? you don't understand an elaborate joke or do you CHOOSE not to understand it?

is your point that i somehow inadvertently admitted being a fascist myself?? because in that case; LMAO

64 35

@SWSeriousMike said:
You have no objective measure for toxicity and there is no control group. It's completely dishonest to always drag another game into this and claiming that chat filters and moderation don't help. Only when I do the same you suddenly acknowledge that correlation isn't causation.
This whole fiasco is a community made problem. Chat filters and moderation aren't considered because of people like me. If only people like me played this game there was no need for that - not even for a mute function. So when someone has right to be pissed about the waste of money put into this then it is me - not you. Stop hurting the game please.

I brought up PVP high skill ceiling multiplayer games. Mordhau is a PVP high skill ceiling game. You brought up a f2p PVE game casual chill farming game which I obviously know way more about it than you thought. If I was hurting the game, I wouldn't even be on the forums the first place. I joined the forums knowing I could discuss on ways to improve the game or interact with new ideas. I like how you think I'm hurting the game even though we are discussing ideas on how to better the game. Seriously, you're pissed because a twelve year old got mad because he got his head chopped off in Frontlines and bitched in chat as a result? You think the game is a waste of money because its toxic and you can't handle it? No, there are WAY MORE REASONS why the game would be a waste of money and why you should get angry, yet NONE of it is being discussed in this thread.

1907 1995
  • 2
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

Who says I'm pissed? It's not about what I can handle. I endure enough animosities on this forum. I entered these discussions because all the arguments against moderation are bullshit:

Freedom of speech doesn't apply here.
"It's also bad in other games" is just whataboutism and defeatism.
"You are thin skinned and I'm a badass" is probably wrong and also besides the point.
"Censorship leads to fascism" is also bullshit because every nation on earth censors shit one way or the other.
"Communists trying to fight our American values in Mordhau" is unhinged paranoia.
"It's not racist to write 'all niggers should burn'" is not even trying to make sense.

Your fake tolerance is hurting the game. The community failed the devs - that's why they consider adding filters now, which takes away from dev time. Grow a spine. Take responsibility.

Here is another high skill ceiling PvP game that doesn't have a toxic community: chess.

This shit with taking random games as examples is completely pointless. I can disprove climate change by comparing the temperatures of summer and winter. I can prove fire generates water by correlation.

Show me your R6 control group or please just stop your pseudo-scientific non-arguments.

129 181
  • 20 Jul '19
 CatR

I am so fricking angry because I was going to say "Why isn't chess toxic?" several posts ago and I was beat to the punch because I was late. Heck, arse, bum, poopoo!

957 311
  • 20 Jul '19
 Antoniokontos

@CatR said:
I am so fricking angry because I was going to say "Why isn't chess toxic?" several posts ago and I was beat to the punch because I was late. Heck, arse, bum, poopoo!

OmG It Is ToXiC ItS lItErAlLy WhItE vS bLaCk

247 149
  • 1
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:
Who says I'm pissed? It's not about what I can handle. I endure enough animosities on this forum. I entered these discussions because all the arguments against moderation are bullshit:

Freedom of speech doesn't apply here.
"It's also bad in other games" is just whataboutism and defeatism.
"You are thin skinned and I'm a badass" is probably wrong and also besides the point.
"Censorship leads to fascism" is also bullshit because every nation on earth censors shit one way or the other.
"Communists trying to fight our American values in Mordhau" is unhinged paranoia.
"It's not racist to write 'all niggers should burn'" is not even trying to make sense.

Your fake tolerance is hurting the game. The community failed the devs - that's why they consider adding filters now, which takes away from dev time. Grow a spine. Take responsibility.

Here is another high skill ceiling PvP game that doesn't have a toxic community: chess.

This shit with taking random games as examples is completely pointless. I can disprove climate change by comparing the temperatures of summer and winter. I can prove fire generates water by correlation.

Show me your R6 control group or please just stop your pseudo-scientific non-arguments.

"who says i'm pissed?"
oh i dunno, maybe that very post i just quoted, or the fact you are everywhere to be found on these forums, particularly on posts regarding promotion of SJW nonsense and censorship based on the idea that feelings are more important than facts, because subjectivity is completely ignored, as the writer of the post (you) don't realize your feelings aren't shared by everyone... this isn't the protoss mindlink of the Khala, this is you being a thin skinned nerd with nothing better to do than constantly scour these forums for people like me, and then point out how evil i am compared to your supreme self.

i bet you had a nice time with the olive oil and your right hand that night the PCgamer "journalists" wrote an article, directly using my posts in their out-of-context quotes to defame and besmearch Mordhau as a nazi hub.

1907 1995
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
"who says i'm pissed?"
oh i dunno, maybe that very post i just quoted, or the fact you are everywhere to be found on these forums, particularly on posts regarding promotion of SJW nonsense and censorship based on the idea that feelings are more important than facts, because subjectivity is completely ignored, as the writer of the post (you) don't realize your feelings aren't shared by everyone... this isn't the protoss mindlink of the Khala, this is you being a thin skinned nerd with nothing better to do than constantly scour these forums for people like me, and then point out how evil i am compared to your supreme self.

i bet you had a nice time with the olive oil and your right hand that night the PCgamer "journalists" wrote an article, directly using my posts in their out-of-context quotes to defame and besmearch Mordhau as a nazi hub.

What facts?

And how much do you want to bet? 100€?

247 149
  • 20 Jul '19
 ZugZugNeverEnds

@SWSeriousMike said:

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
"who says i'm pissed?"
oh i dunno, maybe that very post i just quoted, or the fact you are everywhere to be found on these forums, particularly on posts regarding promotion of SJW nonsense and censorship based on the idea that feelings are more important than facts, because subjectivity is completely ignored, as the writer of the post (you) don't realize your feelings aren't shared by everyone... this isn't the protoss mindlink of the Khala, this is you being a thin skinned nerd with nothing better to do than constantly scour these forums for people like me, and then point out how evil i am compared to your supreme self.

i bet you had a nice time with the olive oil and your right hand that night the PCgamer "journalists" wrote an article, directly using my posts in their out-of-context quotes to defame and besmearch Mordhau as a nazi hub.

What facts?

And how much do you want to bet? 100€?

just facts in general, nothing in particular, but hey, i think people around these forums are smart enough to know what i mean, despite your intellectual dishonesty in this matter.

i raise you €200

1907 1995
  • 20 Jul '19
 SWSeriousMike

I care about the fact that you have been banned before. I care about the fact that I don't even own olive oil. I care about the fact that I don't like said articles but can't really completely dismiss them because they have more truth to them than you'd like to admit.

You can't give examples of your "facts" because that probably would get you booted from the forums again.

64 35

@SWSeriousMike said:
Who says I'm pissed? It's not about what I can handle. I endure enough animosities on this forum. I entered these discussions because all the arguments against moderation are bullshit:

Freedom of speech doesn't apply here.
"It's also bad in other games" is just whataboutism and defeatism.
"You are thin skinned and I'm a badass" is probably wrong and also besides the point.
"Censorship leads to fascism" is also bullshit because every nation on earth censors shit one way or the other.
"Communists trying to fight our American values in Mordhau" is unhinged paranoia.
"It's not racist to write 'all niggers should burn'" is not even trying to make sense.

Your fake tolerance is hurting the game. The community failed the devs - that's why they consider adding filters now, which takes away from dev time. Grow a spine. Take responsibility.

Here is another high skill ceiling PvP game that doesn't have a toxic community: chess.

This shit with taking random games as examples is completely pointless. I can disprove climate change by comparing the temperatures of summer and winter. I can prove fire generates water by correlation.

Show me your R6 control group or please just stop your pseudo-scientific non-arguments.

Did I say anything about facism, communism, or said, "All niggers should burn" is not racist? Did I say that you're a pussy and I'm a bad ass? No. Did I say anything about Freedom of speech? You're simply putting words into my mouth now. I have my basis on why I believe moderation is not needed, if you want to choose not to believe that, that your opinion and I have my opinion. Did the community fail the devs? No, the devs failed the community. You're chess example is just comical and untangible for this discussion that I'm not even going to bother. I'll be laughing when people get around the cancerous chat filters.