Mordhau

Cheating: Are there exceptions?

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  • 2
  • 25 Aug '19
 smug

It is the developer's fault for not locking the settings. A player ban isn't really justified, you have to ban ALL ini/config edits as the line between cheating/customization is really really murky. Is it cheating to change the way your client handles interp in source games?

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  • 25 Aug '19
 DerFurst

Frankensteining faces in mordhau involves simple .ini edits to change the face transformation values to be asymmetrical. It's funny to make monstrous characters.

Removing the bubble that prevents players from performing unblockable attacks is also a simple .ini edit. This isn't fun for anyone but the cheater - and a hollow enjoyment at that.

There's no "thin line" between these two. Nobody is frankensteining faces for some competitive gameplay advantage. They may be exploiting, but they're certainly not "cheating."

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  • 25 Aug '19
 smug

@DerFurst said:
Frankensteining faces in mordhau involves simple .ini edits to change the face transformation values to be asymmetrical. It's funny to make monstrous characters.

Removing the bubble that prevents players from performing unblockable attacks is also a simple .ini edit. This isn't fun for anyone but the cheater - and a hollow enjoyment at that.

There's no "thin line" between these two. Nobody is frankensteining faces for some competitive gameplay advantage. They may be exploiting, but they're certainly not "cheating."

You pointed out the two extremes while also denying that the middleground exists:

editing interp values in csgo/tf2
changing your fov to values higher than offered in client.
editing ini to turn mouse smoothing off in unreal games because most devs don't put it in their options menu
setting oneframethreadlag=false to get a more responsive mouse input in unreal games at the cost of slightly less fps
turning off fog in ini to get more visibility
potato mode

and so on and so forth.

The interp one is huge because in Left4Dead by changing the values you altered the way your client handled the interpolation of hitboxes. So for a hunter pouncing you, depending on what your values were set at determined the amount of time you had to correctly time a rightclick to perform a deadstop. In other games it also affects the way your projectiles behave(tf2) and how you aimed in general.

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  • 25 Aug '19
 CarnifeX

@GAYFISH said:

@afiNity said:
I'm sure that rick knew that what he did was wrong and i agree that he should be punished, especially for using it in tournaments but still... Coming from games where its completely normal to fiddle with console commands and configs, because the game has features that you cant reach from the main menus alone, i think its grey-area. A lot of people in mordhau use the config to change graphic settings, for example to disable the fog or to decrease the texture quality, much more than you can through the menu. Where ends tweaking and where starts cheating?

When you remove hitboxes to make your attacks literally unblockable there is no grey area. He's a cheater and that's that.

this! nuff said..

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  • 25 Aug '19
 esturias

Where or how do people always find those old threads they always necro? I really don't get it...

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  • 25 Aug '19
 DerFurst

@smug said:
You pointed out the two extremes while also denying that the middleground exists:

You just claimed that all .ini edits are murky, implying that no extremes exist.

A player ban isn't really justified, you have to ban ALL ini/config edits as the line between cheating/customization is really really murky.

You've just admitted to the existence of extremes which invalidates that previous argument.

editing interp values in csgo/tf2
changing your fov to values higher than offered in client.
editing ini to turn mouse smoothing off in unreal games because most devs don't put it in their options menu
setting oneframethreadlag=false to get a more responsive mouse input in unreal games at the cost of slightly less fps
turning off fog in ini to get more visibility
potato mode

None of those things are a "cheatmode on" switch. Turning off a key component of player collision like was done here isn't some supplemental boost - it's bypassing an intended layer of gameplay. It would be comparable to somehow slimming your character's hitbox or making another player's hitbox larger in a shooter game.

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  • 25 Aug '19
 smug

Let me clarify.

You presented two examples of ini edits as if they are the only two ways you could possibly use ini/config edits for. Cheating or larping.

None of those things are a "cheatmode on" switch. Turning off a key component of player collision like was done here isn't some supplemental boost - it's bypassing an intended layer of gameplay. It would be comparable to somehow slimming your character's hitbox or making another player's hitbox larger in a shooter game.

You should perhaps look into how interpolation affects hitbox positioning in source games(all games tbh). In left4dead if you leave the values at their default setting the hitbox lags far behind the actual visible model of a hunter pouncing. By editing these ini files the hitbox would be more aligned with the actual ingame model and therefore someone who actually edited the interp values is at a significant advantage. However this setting has never actually been in the in-game menus of any source game, and there are quite a few times where I've been called a cheater because setting my interp value to a certain setting gave my tank longer arms in l4d.

None of them are a "cheatmode" switch but they are advantages clearly. Remember when people in Chiv cried about fov ini edits? Those ini edits in Chiv is why Trit capped fov in Mordhau.

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  • 26 Aug '19
 Elyon

I also support the fact that changes to the parameters in play are normal, but outside the game, it's exploit game.
That there is a difference between the exploit game and the cheat, do not care, the sanction must be the same, !!!
We must cleanse and clean the unwanted clientele.

Remember that the future of an online game does not depend on the number of maps or the number of skins, but it depends on the quality to fight against the abuses.
And it is not the innumerable games in lines that are deserted that will say the opposite.

This problem of abuse, I always talk about it :
https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/16296/thanks-and-suggestions/
I even warned the developers of the game's release of the importance this has

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  • 26 Aug '19
 DerFurst

@smug said:
Let me clarify.
You presented two examples of ini edits as if they are the only two ways you could possibly use ini/config edits for. Cheating or larping.

Not at all. You made the bold claim that:
"you have to ban ALL ini/config edits as the line between cheating/customization is really really murky."
I used frankensteins as an example of how .ini edits do have extremes and why it's necessary to judge them on a continuum, ranging from inconsequential to gamebreaking. I realize some things might be "really really murky" compared to each other, but not everything is.

You should perhaps look into how interpolation affects hitbox positioning in source games(all games tbh). In left4dead if you leave the values at their default setting the hitbox lags far behind the actual visible model of a hunter pouncing. By editing these ini files the hitbox would be more aligned with the actual ingame model and therefore someone who actually edited the interp values is at a significant advantage. However this setting has never actually been in the in-game menus of any source game, and there are quite a few times where I've been called a cheater because setting my interp value to a certain setting gave my tank longer arms in l4d.

Interpolation isn't only one thing you mentioned. There is a world of difference between turning off mouse smoothing or changing FOV to what Rick was doing. You shouldn't be silly and act like all these things are equally bad and that everyone deserves an equal punishment. It's as silly as saying "all criminals commit crime, so don't they deserve equal sentences?" As for interpolation, leave that question to those other games. I'm focusing on what's happened to this one.

As well, the developers have already banned him, so clearly what he did was in the realm of cheating in their minds. There's no more need to argue that.

None of them are a "cheatmode" switch but they are advantages clearly. Remember when people in Chiv cried about fov ini edits? Those ini edits in Chiv is why Trit capped fov in Mordhau.

Torn Banner never hardcoded the FOV to stop this when they easily could have, showing either apathy or tacit support. In fact, Triternion increased the maximum FOV in this game because they used those .ini edits in Chivalry themselves! Even now if someone broke the FOV cap in Mordhau, it wouldn't be remotely as harmful as what Rick had done with the bubble. The FOV is already capped fairly high in game, and few people would be able to take advantage of going much higher - and not to a significant degree either. It's clearly not as big of a problem.

TL;DR: .ini/config edits exist on a continuum where opposite extremes exist. Different edits fall on different degrees on the scale. Not everything is equally as bad, and so punishments should fit the crime.

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  • 26 Aug '19
 SWSeriousMike

When you give a monkey a gun and that monkey shoots someone, you shouldn't punish the monkey.

That a simple ini edit enabled cheating in a "competitive" multiplayer game is just negligence. That rick was banned for this is a dangerous precedent. On the upside there are no clear rules anyway and the devs and mods aren't really burdened by precedence and can just do whatever they please. An example for this is that this thread is still going.

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  • 26 Aug '19
 LoPan

@SWSeriousMike said:

3.1. You shall not necropost. (more than 60 days since the last post)

Also alonesilverwolf isn't really active at this forum anymore.

Alonesilverwolf isn’t active on the forums anymore? I’m sure everyone’s really sad to hear that.

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  • 26 Aug '19
 DerFurst

@SWSeriousMike said:
When you give a monkey a gun and that monkey shoots someone, you shouldn't punish the monkey.

lol rick isn't a monkey and nobody gave him a gun. It's more like he was invited into his neighbors house, found a gun lying around easily accessible, and rather than inform the owners to lock up their weapons, took the gun and went on a shooting spree. He knew what he was doing.

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  • 26 Aug '19
 ToLazy4Name

rick isn't a monkey

Are you sure about that?

Duchess 793 3512
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  • 27 Aug '19
 PC_Principal

so this is from june 18 or 17? It just says june.