Mordhau

Cheating: Are there exceptions?

138 218
  • 17 Jun
 DylanS_98
Should players who choose to cheat in Mordhau be given an exception based on what kind of cheat they were using?

I'll try not to rant to much but the title is pretty much the concern. When someone is caught cheating, will there be exceptions based on what they did or who it is? Both?

With the recent news about 'chivrick' getting caught editing .ini files (or something along those lines, the specifics aren't important) to gain an advantage over players both in regular gameplay and comp-gameplay, I find the punishment of him being barred from only competitive kind of a light slap on the wrist.

To catch you up on the whole ordeal..

https://imgur.com/a/kruHM3O
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHHSRwa0y4I&t=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er5OG2xMzYM

TL:DR

Player used .ini edits to pretty much hit behind the parry box of the player model, making it impossible to parry him.

Now I can't speak for the guys 'character' or 'personality' - but just from the clip of him talking to Stouty, he very clearly is in denial about his own cheating; and it honestly seems like he doesn't care. Let me take some quotes from such video where he makes this evident.

7:00 "I don't want people to abuse it." - Yet you did it, openly. On stream, against friends, in public areas, and even in a tournament.

8:17 Stouty asks "Did you use it in the Tournament?" to which Rick replies "Eh, I don't remember."

8:40 "I could of stayed quiet about this." - Kind of hard when you are a known player, streamer (within Mordhau), and apart of a competitive community. This wouldn't of changed anything.

9:15 "It's kind of like cheating." - Editing your game files to make your swings pass through peoples models so that they can't parry it -IS- cheating. It's not kind of, it is.

9:20 "It's in the game. It's not an external program." - No, you're purposely going out of your way to utilize knowledge a common player or even a high tier player might not have to gain an advantage over others. Which involves actively changing something in your files.

9:36 "It was way better it got discovered now rather then later." - The thing is, you didn't tell anyone you were doing it nor did you tell the developers. You literally used it to your advantage. You act like this is a good thing as if you did some good - when you didn't. You got caught.

I could go on, but you can watch the video yourself. He pretty much dodges around the questions and tries to justify his actions and blatantly lies to cover his tracks. Stouty of course is right on his toes about most of it, and even provides proof during one of the claims of his past 'kind of not cheating' in Chivalry.

This is more of a 'meme' video, but the screenshots are just more blatant proof of this guy being downright toxic and just bullshitting his own ability. I take no offense in someone being toxic, it just kills me that the dude tries to write off peoples legit accusations and concerns with "People think I'm cheating.." "Aim for the shoulder."

Lastly, this guy was even invited onto a server by another clan hoping to improve by learning exactly how he did it. Little did he know that someone was spectating him the entire time and caught him clipping through peoples models. HE WAS TRYING TO TEACH THEM THINGS THAT WERE NOT POSSIBLE FOR A NON-CHEATING PLAYER TO DO. Absolutely ridiculous.

Rant over.

My concern is, are we going to handle everyone who does this with slaps on the wrist or are we just going to actually ban them from playing the game they willfully cheated on knowing full and well what they done. Especially considering the kind of reaction this guy has given which is both uncaring and disingenuous. I'd rather not continue sinking my time in a game if people are just allowed to cheat and get away with it. Fuck that shit entirely.

Again. No ill-will towards Rick, don't know the guy but I'm legitimately concerned over this issue.

Thanks.

777 1029

Can't remember if he used it in tournament...

304 238
  • 17 Jun
 LoPan

What is this?

No.

The answer is no.

Knight 7572 13864
  • 17 Jun
 ToLazy4Name

No, but the reason he wasn't game banned is because he was caught on unofficial servers and not official ones. Rick has always been a cheating, gaslighting retard, and considering he's not a child anymore, likely always will be.

24 34
  • 17 Jun
 Sayton

Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

156 128

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

24 34
  • 17 Jun
 Sayton

@alonesilverwolf said:

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

You're both missing and confirming my point.
I have seen threads on this forum where people are proudly presenting screenshots of their increased FoV (not possible in the game client but possible to change in the config files). I don't think they regarded it as cheating or they wouldn't have presented the evidence for everyone to see.

Knight 933 941
  • 17 Jun
 afiNity

There is a difference between editing ini files and using third party software
That being said, this guy still deserves to be shit on like its currently happening

304 238
  • 17 Jun
 LoPan

@Sayton said:

@alonesilverwolf said:

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

You're both missing and confirming my point.
I have seen threads on this forum where people are proudly presenting screenshots of their increased FoV (not possible in the game client but possible to change in the config files). I don't think they regarded it as cheating or they wouldn't have presented the evidence for everyone to see.

All that means is they share the same flawed thinking.

156 128

@LoPan said:

@Sayton said:

@alonesilverwolf said:

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

You're both missing and confirming my point.
I have seen threads on this forum where people are proudly presenting screenshots of their increased FoV (not possible in the game client but possible to change in the config files). I don't think they regarded it as cheating or they wouldn't have presented the evidence for everyone to see.

All that means is they share the same flawed thinking.

Exactly. It doesn't matter somone agreed it was okay. I'm sure another hacker would be like "using hax is cool, reee"

I don't give a fuck. It's exploiting to gain advantage over the rest of the playerbase, it is cheating. Fin.

138 218
  • 17 Jun
 DylanS_98

@ToLazy4Name said:
No, but the reason he wasn't game banned is because he was caught on unofficial servers and not official ones. Rick has always been a cheating, gaslighting retard, and considering he's not a child anymore, likely always will be.

Fair enough. Yeah, I kind of grasped all that just from hearing him speak for a few minutes when talking to Stouty and just the general demeanor of his comments towards others. Funny how so little says a lot about someone.

Honestly hope we can just reach a point where I don't have to second guess if someone has deleted their animations or edited their files while fighting.

24 34
  • 17 Jun
 Sayton

@LoPan said:

@Sayton said:

@alonesilverwolf said:

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

You're both missing and confirming my point.
I have seen threads on this forum where people are proudly presenting screenshots of their increased FoV (not possible in the game client but possible to change in the config files). I don't think they regarded it as cheating or they wouldn't have presented the evidence for everyone to see.

All that means is they share the same flawed thinking.

Point being is that it shouldn't be up to the individual player's ethical judgement or guesstimation. If the devs don't think it should be allowed they should remove the possibility to change those values.

In Delta Force: Black Hawk Down, if you put your in-game gfx settings to low you were able to see and shoot under buildings and objects which other players could not see through.
Would you say the devs should ban anyone running the game on low, or should they simply fix the issue?

156 128

@DylanS_98 said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
No, but the reason he wasn't game banned is because he was caught on unofficial servers and not official ones. Rick has always been a cheating, gaslighting retard, and considering he's not a child anymore, likely always will be.

Fair enough. Yeah, I kind of grasped all that just from hearing him speak for a few minutes when talking to Stouty and just the general demeanor of his comments towards others. Funny how so little says a lot about someone.

Honestly hope we can just reach a point where I don't have to second guess if someone has deleted their animations or edited their files while fighting.

Or are using micros to do several actions without having the actual skill to link them together fluidly without 1 button pressing crap.

156 128

@Sayton said:

@LoPan said:

@Sayton said:

@alonesilverwolf said:

@Sayton said:
Changing config files (FoV increase etc), complex binds (bunny jump and such), graphic card settings (making smokes invisible in CSGO), etc. to get an in-game advantage has been done in games since forever and is often seen as legit.
I don't think that it is ultimately the players who should be in charge of deciding whether or not it's allowed. If it's not allowed then the devs should patch it out.

In this case it may seem like an easy call for someone with a bit of common sense. But it sets a precedence, will the players be assumed to only change values in the config files if they think it's fair? Where does the line go? Can changing FoV be unfair - will it get you banned? "Potato mode", will it give you any form of advantage, who knows?

If you on the other hand download software to intentionally cheat in the game, I think it's different. It's external to the game and specifically made to cheat. There's no excuse and they should be banned.

/2cents

This right here, is a load of crap. If someone uses their .ini files to gain ANY advantage over someone who does not, it is cheating. I don't give af how you try to spin it, it's gaining advantages over an honest player.

This is especially true with FOV. If you use the .ini to change fov beyond what the IN GAME OPTIONS allow, you're cheating. Period. I cite the following video as reason why: high FOV

If you don't call that crap cheating, newsflash: you're part of the problem and deserve to be banned.

You're both missing and confirming my point.
I have seen threads on this forum where people are proudly presenting screenshots of their increased FoV (not possible in the game client but possible to change in the config files). I don't think they regarded it as cheating or they wouldn't have presented the evidence for everyone to see.

All that means is they share the same flawed thinking.

Point being is that it shouldn't be up to the individual player's ethical judgement or guesstimation. If the devs don't think it should be allowed they should remove the possibility to change those values.

In Delta Force: Black Hawk Down, if you put your in-game gfx settings to low you were able to see and shoot under buildings and objects which other players could not see through.
Would you say the devs should ban anyone running the game on low, or should they simply fix the issue?

They should fix the issue. But using in game settings is not the same as editing an ini file, and the fact you would even compare the two at all is incredibly stupid.

And how would devs STOP people from being able to edit an ini file anyway? Again, no matter how hard you try to spin it, it's cheating. And I have to wonder if you do and that's why you're trying so hard to defend it.

138 218
  • 17 Jun
 DylanS_98

In my eyes. If you are knowingly changing something to get a distinct difference in gameplay (i.e. Editing your files so that you literally CLIP through players to make your attacks no longer parryable) you should be banned. Official, or unofficial.

If you get caught, you should get banned.

Both the player and the developers are at fault here. But mostly the player. This wasn't a slider he adjusted in-game, this was knowledge he took from another game (that he also cheated on - also namely on the Unreal Engine) and applied to Mordhau to which he got a positive result (for himself).

What honestly puts the 'cherry on top' is the fact he was SHOWING people how 'great' he was by doing it. Even trying to teach people how to do it knowing that they could never ever replicate it because of the methods he used. Dude was so deep in his lie he became an instructor.

156 128

@DylanS_98 said:
In my eyes. If you are knowingly changing something to get a distinct difference in gameplay (i.e. Editing your files so that you literally CLIP through players to make your attacks no longer parryable) you should be banned. Official, or unofficial.

If you get caught, you should get banned.

Both the player and the developers are at fault here. But mostly the player. This wasn't a slider he adjusted in-game, this was knowledge he took from another game (that he also cheated on - also namely on the Unreal Engine) and applied to Mordhau to which he got a positive result (for himself).

What honestly puts the 'cherry on top' is the fact he was SHOWING people how 'great' he was by doing it. Even trying to teach people how to do it knowing that they could never ever replicate it because of the methods he used. Dude was so deep in his lie he became an instructor.

100% agree. It doesn't matter that the option to edit that is still in the game files, the game is clearly NOT intended to be played in that manner.

Devs should patch it out, I agree. But again, editing the game files is completely different to using in game settings on a slider or whatever.

Fact some defend that garbage tells you a lot about them as a player.

24 34
  • 1
  • 17 Jun
 Sayton

@alonesilverwolf said:
And how would devs STOP people from being able to edit an ini file anyway? Again, no matter how hard you try to spin it, it's cheating. And I have to wonder if you do and that's why you're trying so hard to defend it.

I'm not trying to "spin" anything or defend anyone here.
I'm making an argument that it's backward to include config files, which are generally allowed to edit in all multiplayer games, but then expect the players to only change what they consider fair.

I'm not a game developer but I'm pretty sure they can fix this exploit which Rick found. I hope so at least because I think it's safe to say that Rick was not the only person abusing it (even less so now that it's made public).

Would I use something like this if I found it? No, not when it's this obviously an unfair advantage.
But have I changed config files to improve my game, yes sure, in ArmA I changed a lot of settings to make the game run faster and incidentally gave me an advantage at long range as the rendering of terrain changed in such a way that I would be able to see players easier. Many people did it and it was recommended on all the forums, youtube guides and reddits. So yeah. Again leads back to my point.

156 128

@Sayton said:

@alonesilverwolf said:
And how would devs STOP people from being able to edit an ini file anyway? Again, no matter how hard you try to spin it, it's cheating. And I have to wonder if you do and that's why you're trying so hard to defend it.

I'm not trying to "spin" anything or defend anyone here.
I'm making an argument that it's backward to include config files, which are generally allowed to edit in all multiplayer games, but then expect the players to only change what they consider fair.

I'm not a game developer but I'm pretty sure they can fix this exploit which Rick found. I hope so at least because I think it's safe to say that Rick was not the only person abusing it (even less so now that it's made public).

Would I use something like this if I found it? No, not when it's this obviously an unfair advantage.
But have I changed config files to improve my game, yes sure, in ArmA I changed a lot of settings to make the game run faster and incidentally gave me an advantage at long range as the rendering of terrain changed in such a way that I would be able to see player easier. Many people did it and it was recommended on all the forums, youtube guides and reddits. So yeah. Again leads back to my point.

Not sure what the devs can do though. Not include a config file? Okay, but if someone wants to do it they can just go and edit the game files themselves.

I do agree that the devs need to fix it, because players will exploit what they can in PvP.

But it's not right for the players to do so. The best thing the devs could do, aside from patch the exploits out, is to release a statement saying that they consider this cheating as well. But the devs have been mysteriously silent for quite some time now, in general.

You can't just give the player a free pass for doing something that is clearly giving them an advantage over other players, however, only available through editing the ini or other files

Knight 933 941
  • 17 Jun
 afiNity

I'm sure that rick knew that what he did was wrong and i agree that he should be punished, especially for using it in tournaments but still... Coming from games where its completely normal to fiddle with console commands and configs, because the game has features that you cant reach from the main menus alone, i think its grey-area. A lot of people in mordhau use the config to change graphic settings, for example to disable the fog or to decrease the texture quality, much more than you can through the menu. Where ends tweaking and where starts cheating?

Knight 99 263
  • 2
  • 17 Jun
 GAYFISH

@afiNity said:
I'm sure that rick knew that what he did was wrong and i agree that he should be punished, especially for using it in tournaments but still... Coming from games where its completely normal to fiddle with console commands and configs, because the game has features that you cant reach from the main menus alone, i think its grey-area. A lot of people in mordhau use the config to change graphic settings, for example to disable the fog or to decrease the texture quality, much more than you can through the menu. Where ends tweaking and where starts cheating?

When you remove hitboxes to make your attacks literally unblockable there is no grey area. He's a cheater and that's that.