Mordhau

Archer Overhaul Idea

2 9

So, in lieu of being rekt as archer by 3/3/3 knights rolling with huntsman who pick up discarded bows, i had an idea that would help with archery, an overhaul.
Its designed in a way that would let archers still be archers in the way they are now, <not OP> however it would put knights at more of a disadvantage so archers arent just outclassed by absolutely everything....Javs for example.

The Idea

-Make Archer a perk like Peasant

The perk alone opens up for other perks such as:
•huntsman
•ranger

the perk also gives the archer the current speed and stability and those without it cannot gain such things

<those without the perk stick with only 3 arrows as it is now, but without the archer perk the draw time is 1.5 times longer and the steady time is .5 times shorter and the hold length is 1/4 the current.

Additionally
Those with archer perk can choose from :
Long bow
Horse bow
Crossbow

While those without the perk can only choose Crossbow.

PERK IDEAS
•strong arm
You dont friggin drop your damn bow

•Bodkin Arrows
More armor penetration = more damage

•Horse Archer
More rotation ability on the horse?

•Mule
2× arrow amount

•Heavy Hitter
Arrows flinch the enemy

Inventory points are not representative of what i think each perk should cost, they just replace what i think an archer would not need/ should not be able to use.

PicsArt_06-10-08.14.27.jpg

Knight 457 879
  • 12 Jun
 wierHL

I'd like to add something to this: imo the archer perk should lock you out of T3 torso and legs. Not because a heavy plated archer would be OP (their dmg output wouldn't change that much) but because they'd just be annoying.
Right now this is kinda done by making bows expensive, but just locking archers out of those pieces would allow the devs more freedom to determine cost of bows and additional perks.

382 575
  • 1
  • 12 Jun
 smug

I'd also rework huntsman to be conducive toward skilled interactions whereas right now it dumbs down longbow 1v1s and makes everything around it retarded like throwable loadouts running huntsman and not being affected by the debuff itself. There should be a perk that multiplies the dmg done by headshots while also reducing the dmg done by bodyshotting to reward skilled archery play.

These are good ideas that make a lot more sense than the dev's current implementation of archery which no matter how you look at it was an afterthought because the devs themselves hate archery. My research seems to show that archery was implemented into a late stage version of the alpha and hasn't gone through extensive testing.

Conscript 85 146
  • 12 Jun
 Byzantine

@YlvaGrímsdóttir said:
So, in lieu of being rekt as archer by 3/3/3 knights rolling with huntsman who pick up discarded bows, i had an idea that would help with archery, an overhaul.
Its designed in a way that would let archers still be archers in the way they are now, <not OP> however it would put knights at more of a disadvantage so archers arent just outclassed by absolutely everything....Javs for example.

The Idea

-Make Archer a perk like Peasant

The perk alone opens up for other perks such as:
•huntsman
•ranger

the perk also gives the archer the current speed and stability and those without it cannot gain such things

<those without the perk stick with only 3 arrows as it is now, but without the archer perk the draw time is 1.5 times longer and the steady time is .5 times shorter and the hold length is 1/4 the current.

Additionally
Those with archer perk can choose from :
Long bow
Horse bow
Crossbow

While those without the perk can only choose Crossbow.

PERK IDEAS
•strong arm
You dont friggin drop your damn bow

•Bodkin Arrows
More armor penetration = more damage

•Horse Archer
More rotation ability on the horse?

•Mule
2× arrow amount

•Heavy Hitter
Arrows flinch the enemy

Inventory points are not representative of what i think each perk should cost, they just replace what i think an archer would not need/ should not be able to use.

PicsArt_06-10-08.14.27.jpg

Now that's a neat idea.

Knight 693 1581
  • 12 Jun
 das

That whole thing about people despising how horse pushes flinch you... it's even worse with ranged. Flinched parries when someone shoots you from somwhere unseen (above, behind) feels horrible.

The rotation limit is there because of animations, they don't want you to demonically twist your torso 360 like the North Korean suit prototype in Iron Man 1 since your legs are attached to the horse and can't turn.

Keeping only Crossbows available without the perk is an interesting idea. 3 shots, long reload, doesn't get oneshot with armor but cannot oneshot other archers on the torso.

382 575
  • 3
  • 13 Jun
 smug

Yet archers can flinch other archers I agree that it would be a bad idea, but the game's systems should atleast be consistent.

Right now there's clear bias

9 7
  • 1
  • 13 Jun
 Tictakjoe

This makes no sense. You want to buff archers radically by basically making bows cheaper and then giving them a bunch of strong perks. But if you were going to do that you could just do the same thing more simply by lowering the point cost of bows (and then adding the new perks).

So I don't get what this concept is supposed to add to anything. The current bow system works in practice just as if there were a high cost archer perk, because the ammo limit on knights is very low. And the current system is better because it clearly communicates that if you want to actually use your bow you need to be an archer. Whereas if longbow costed 3 or whatever under your system a lot of new players would pick it up as a secondary weapon only to realize that you need the "Archer" perk to access the quiver. Don't see any real gain here.

I mean add new archer perks by all means. And it looks like (with the odd choice to make Huntsman and Ranger 1 point perks, despite both of them being autopick bargains at 2) Triternion may be thinking about moving in that direction.

They aren't going to do anything that would substantially buff archer damage though. Any damage perk would feel pretty mandatory and would make not using the perk feel weak. They might do something that allows opting into faster projectile speed. Like:

"Overdraw: Alt Fire of your bow increases arrow speed by 33%, but triples the speed of draw shake". Something like this would open up higher skill cap Archer gameplay (faster projectiles-->more upside to accuracy + more mechanically difficult since you can't hold your shots) without jeopardizing the overall archery / melee balance, since it would be relatively easy to parry overdrawn shots.

2 9

@Tictakjoe said:
This makes no sense. You want to buff archers radically by basically making bows cheaper and then giving them a bunch of strong perks. But if you were going to do that you could just do the same thing more simply by lowering the point cost of bows (and then adding the new perks).

So I don't get what this concept is supposed to add to anything. The current bow system works in practice just as if there were a high cost archer perk, because the ammo limit on knights is very low. And the current system is better because it clearly communicates that if you want to actually use your bow you need to be an archer. Whereas if longbow costed 3 or whatever under your system a lot of new players would pick it up as a secondary weapon only to realize that you need the "Archer" perk to access the quiver. Don't see any real gain here.

I mean add new archer perks by all means. And it looks like (with the odd choice to make Huntsman and Ranger 1 point perks, despite both of them being autopick bargains at 2) Triternion may be thinking about moving in that direction.

They aren't going to do anything that would substantially buff archer damage though. Any damage perk would feel pretty mandatory and would make not using the perk feel weak. They might do something that allows opting into faster projectile speed. Like:

"Overdraw: Alt Fire of your bow increases arrow speed by 33%, but triples the speed of draw shake". Something like this would open up higher skill cap Archer gameplay (faster projectiles-->more upside to accuracy + more mechanically difficult since you can't hold your shots) without jeopardizing the overall archery / melee balance, since it would be relatively easy to parry overdrawn shots.

Um, there wasnt really amything said about biffing bows unless you take that "bodkin" perk, and it wouldn't necessarily be for all armor either, maybe just plate. Additionally, the whole thing would make itnso any one without the archer perk, would not be able to access bows, just the cross bow. That way the low levels cant take it as a secondary. And even for the bow cost itself, not saying drop it to 3s or 2s. Personally id think it would be better at 7 and the recurve at sayyy 5.