Mordhau

Crossroads lacks focus

7 9

It feels like the new map has some design issues. How it plays now is: the team which focuses the least on cavalry wins. The goal of the map is to control the mid point, King of the hill style. The more of your team is focused on riding and countering enemy riders the less bodies there are left to contend the same mid point.

It feels like the designer had two good ideas and tried to mesh them together, but it fails.

Suggestions to remedy the situation

· Make a new objective to the side of the keep and walls. A huge objective circle where cavalry can fight and contest a point
· Remove most of the horses reducing their impact on the map
· Open up the lower floor of the mid point so that cavalry can attack and run or cap if needed

Either of these would work, but I feel the first one is the way to go to keep the map different from the others in the pool.

5 1
  • 12 Jun
 Nauht

You mean focus for cavalry. Play to win, get the middle or play for fun, get horses. Up to you, you bought the game.

7 9

No, then it's apparent you didn't read my post. I suggested to either make cavalry useful for the map objective or remove most of them. I didn't advocate for more cavalry, just for a better map. You do realize you can make maps where play to win and play for fun aligns, don't you?

7 3
  • 12 Jun
 sturcot70

I wish there was a way to prevent matchmaking from finding half empty Crossroads seven times in a row. Not frontline to me at all. Belongs in another mode or put multiple forts and final objectives.

147 175
  • 2
  • 12 Jun
 smug

The horses are a big reason the map is garbage in the first place. One of it's saving graces is that there are parts of the map where you can AVOID that cancer gameplay. If horses could actually help cap the center point anymore than they already can there would be no reason to ever vote crossroads ever again.

Removing horses altogether probably would of made crossroads a lot more bearable and less hated tbh.

Your thesis is correct but it's not just true for crossroads, it's true for EVERY front line map, the team that has cav dominance usually ends up winning because of how overpowered they are as a force multiplier. That is why you will see horses banned for comp frontline.

11 25
  • 12 Jun
 Treusturm

Did you even read the original post?

Yeah I agree, the team which has the horse dominance always loses the map in my experience. I even had a game where we entered the winning the team by 300 points margin. Then when we killed most of the enemy riders we started to lose the game as more of our team got horses.

147 175
  • 12 Jun
 smug

Yes 2/3 of your suggestions were bad because they involved horses

7 9

@smug said:
Yes 2/3 of your suggestions were bad because they involved horses

3 of my suggestions involved horses. What were you trying to contribute here?

7 9

@smug said:
The horses are a big reason the map is garbage in the first place. One of it's saving graces is that there are parts of the map where you can AVOID that cancer gameplay. If horses could actually help cap the center point anymore than they already can there would be no reason to ever vote crossroads ever again.

Removing horses altogether probably would of made crossroads a lot more bearable and less hated tbh.

Your thesis is correct but it's not just true for crossroads, it's true for EVERY front line map, the team that has cav dominance usually ends up winning because of how overpowered they are as a force multiplier. That is why you will see horses banned for comp frontline.

My thesis for crossroads was the opposite though. That the team with the most riders loses the map. Have you really played Crossroads? The horses don't contribute at all to the objective of the map and are laughably easy to pick off from the balista.

Last game I had on it I just stayed at the ballista and racked up like 25-0 before it was over.

38 42
  • 12 Jun
 SoRoofless

I think they should go full retard with crossroads and add trampolines and rope swings.

7 9

@SoRoofless said:
I think they should go full retard with crossroads and add trampolines and rope swings.

That's actually not a very bad idea. Make it a gimmicky, fun map. But releasing that as a 5th map in the pool is questionable. We need more proper Frontline maps.

11 15
  • 2
  • 12 Jun
 sloe

It's an awesome map, I like the design and verticals, but yeah it does lack focus. What I thought would be a tactical cavalry map is actually just a spawn campers paradise...horses booking it to the enemy spawn for cheap shots and free kills while completely disregarding the objective.

A better horse map would be this new one without the fort in the middle, and an objective/target in each base that has to be hit by a lance on horseback or something.

I like the idea of a second objective for cavalry to hold!

To expand on that a bit, holding point A on foot could make it possible for your horses to reach point B and hold it. So you'd have two groups accomplishing different goals in support of each other.

5 1
  • 13 Jun
 Nauht

@JoelTarnabene said:

@smug said:
The horses are a big reason the map is garbage in the first place. One of it's saving graces is that there are parts of the map where you can AVOID that cancer gameplay. If horses could actually help cap the center point anymore than they already can there would be no reason to ever vote crossroads ever again.

Removing horses altogether probably would of made crossroads a lot more bearable and less hated tbh.

Your thesis is correct but it's not just true for crossroads, it's true for EVERY front line map, the team that has cav dominance usually ends up winning because of how overpowered they are as a force multiplier. That is why you will see horses banned for comp frontline.

My thesis for crossroads was the opposite though. That the team with the most riders loses the map. Have you really played Crossroads? The horses don't contribute at all to the objective of the map and are laughably easy to pick off from the balista.

Last game I had on it I just stayed at the ballista and racked up like 25-0 before it was over.

So yeah, you want a focus for cavalry, something for horses to do and contribute to the map right? So what was wrong in my first reply? Infantry have their focus - the middle. You should rename the title to "Crossroads needs something for horses to do other than spawn camp".

You basically reinforced what I said in my original reply too - play to win (hold the middle) or play for fun (go horse). Up to you.

927 1563

Whoa wait can we go back to the comment where "horses will most likely be banned in comp" LOL as if comp players were whiny bitches who couldn't handle horses... when the billhook, halberd and spear are such reliable weapons and axes/javelins pack a punch.

Anyways, I agree with the OP, two great ideas mashed together poorly. Map feels unfinished and it would be awesome if cavalry had an objective besides killing each other under ballista/cannon fire.

I think THREE capzones would be best though, two in the fort and one outside on a hill. The second horse cap point should be just a hill with a catapult spawn that can shoot across the field and into the fort. So cavalry can break a stalemate but alone they won't force a tie as they would with two objectives. And infantry can use the horse' hill for catapult/mortar support... So the hill is great for racking kills and breaking a stalemate in the fort but you need at least a foothold in the fort to get by. Holding both points in the fort is the most obvious way to win.

7 9

@Nauht said:

@JoelTarnabene said:

@smug said:
The horses are a big reason the map is garbage in the first place. One of it's saving graces is that there are parts of the map where you can AVOID that cancer gameplay. If horses could actually help cap the center point anymore than they already can there would be no reason to ever vote crossroads ever again.

Removing horses altogether probably would of made crossroads a lot more bearable and less hated tbh.

Your thesis is correct but it's not just true for crossroads, it's true for EVERY front line map, the team that has cav dominance usually ends up winning because of how overpowered they are as a force multiplier. That is why you will see horses banned for comp frontline.

My thesis for crossroads was the opposite though. That the team with the most riders loses the map. Have you really played Crossroads? The horses don't contribute at all to the objective of the map and are laughably easy to pick off from the balista.

Last game I had on it I just stayed at the ballista and racked up like 25-0 before it was over.

So yeah, you want a focus for cavalry, something for horses to do and contribute to the map right? So what was wrong in my first reply? Infantry have their focus - the middle. You should rename the title to "Crossroads needs something for horses to do other than spawn camp".

You basically reinforced what I said in my original reply too - play to win (hold the middle) or play for fun (go horse). Up to you.

No, I had 3 suggestions and one of them was to remove most of the horses. My concern was with fixing the map, not promoting cavalry. If that doesn't go hand in hand for most people - so be it. Remove the horses then, but don't keep the map as it is.

It seems you are very passionate about the horses being bad for the game. I can respect that, but don't let that blind you when reading the forums. So much hostility here anyway, no need to add to that with misunderstandings like this.

82 52

I say if its a KOTH map, make a KOTH gamemode and add maps to that if you really feel like people care to play that.

But remove it from frontline rotation.
All it does right now is make me switch servers whenever someone votes for it, because I want to play frontline and then a KOTH map loads instead.

Also it would be great if time instead of ticket based oldschool team objective based maps were made again as well instead of this KOTH nonsense. Just my personal preference and, oh, I don't know, I would guess pretty much most of the old Chivalry playerbase that didn't live for dueling alone. If it has to be more ticket frontline-ish, then okay, make more frontline maps.
Just don't mix within one gamemode.

927 1563

New gamemode = diluted player base

Bringing Crossroads up to parr for FL would make more sense... and FL is getting some major changes I hear anyways.

Also I think Crossroads is an important refresher in the FL servers, I'd hate to see it go just because it plays like KOTH. Would much rather the KOTH feel get fine tuned to better fit FL while still allowing it to play differently from the other maps.

7 9

Red actually have an easier time retaking mid as the map is now. Their natural path from spawn leads directly into mid, while Blue easily get distracted on their way by cavalry, archers and ladders. I'm sure the map would be awesome in organized play, but in a pug it's just a frustration when you yourself are objective-oriented.

82 52
  • 13 Jun
 HalldeiMaul

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
New gamemode = diluted player base

Look man, it wasn't my idea to make a KOTH map, quite the opposite. We SHOULD have gotten another frontline map, but it wasn't, so don't put it with frontline.
Saying its a stupid idea to dilute the playerbase and map types is absolutely right, it just doesn't change what happened factually, sadly.