Mordhau

Listen to your community.

63 29
  • 12 Jun
 Crumly

Man I think the Mordhau maps are fucking sweet. They feel huge and like there is a hundred hidey holes in each one, sometimes I wish I was an archer player (fuck archers) just so I'd have a reason to go up in some of them. The maps feel way more epic to me than chivalry ones.

That chiv 2 video looks sweet as hell though

@Dialectic said:
Objectively that trailer was bad. It was CGI, and poorly done CGI. The combat was likely not live gameplay but a rendering, and the hitboxes were laughably bad.

Why do you still fall for teaser trailers? Lol

Why do you try to sound so reasonable and smart, every fucking word your wrote down was garbage

274 320
  • 12 Jun
 DrGert

@EruTheTeapot said:
Yea so I kinda agree and don't agree with Tim.

What we are missing in the game mainly imho:

  • WHO are fighting ?
  • WHY they are fighting ?

They are fighting but what for ?
Is it for a King who just wants gold coinz or for a rebellious noble of said king to set the kingdom on the right track ?
Is it a simple invasion on a kingdom ?
Simply the answer is, we just don't know. Because there isn't a lore atm. Sure we have team names of Iron Company and Whatever the name of blue is, can't even remember it, and that they are mercenary companies.
But why are the sides in this war use mercenary companies instead of a proper organized army ?

I think we need a good lore behind the fighting scenes before the map designs or whatnot. They are content for now but their background is empty. Cause imho, nothing gives a game or any fiction product better personality than a solid, interesting lore.

Maps should have their own purposes in the lore too, why is it that we free peasants in Grad but not free any prisoners in Camp ? Could be a choice to have variations in map objectives to not be repetitive surely but then we need some reason to believe so. Maybe the owners of the camp executed the prisoners while sieging the main fortress or maybe they just don't take prisoners to begin with.

We have nothing to build the Mordhau world upon. So..

lore
lore

lore

lore

lore

lore


On the other hand, I have problems with the objectives given on maps rather than the map design itself. I don't see the hate Crossroads is getting either. Sure we have a open field and a small castle like ruins with treehouse, still not making use of the open field cause the objective is ONLY a King of The Hill type inside the ruins. Again we are in need of a lore on the map to see why its a Crossroad and why we need to capture a ruin ?

Is it on a main trade route ? Then why is it a ruin ?
If it is a ruin why do companies want to capture it ?
Why do we have 2 stables in middle of nowhere ? Its a crossroad, why don't we see any main roads leading to some interesting faraway scenery like a city in distance or a trade port ?

Sure there are minor map design flaws that don't make sense but nothing that can't be fixed we ease.

-#MakeLorehauGreatAgain

In other words...

FromSoftware hired George Martin.
People like FromSoftware.
Be more like FromSoftware.

33 71

Came to the post expecting an informative dev reply on the issues of crossroads and the future of the game - its actually just Crush posting stupid memes on an unrelated comment. fml

985 6954
  • 12 Jun
 marox — Project Lead

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

Baron 17 45
  • 12 Jun
 ScaryGuy

@marox said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

Win.

30 46
  • 12 Jun
 Treusturm

@marox said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

Thanks for the promising response!

101 88
  • 12 Jun
 BOBOLOJOE

chivalry 2 is a cash grab.
they made 0 money on mirage because they made a game no one asked for.
they are copying mordhau just like modhau copied them. 64 players? horses?
if it ends up with all the same features as mordhau i will buy it and play it as "extra mordhau content" i can't imagine them playing too different.
TO made chivalry great. but I am happy with mordhau how it is.
I would like to see both games add more content. SDK please.
will this be the beginning of a COD vs BF competition? I hope so... theres an idea for you. recreate the good old battlefield games like 1942 with this great combat

i have no faith in the chivlary 2 developers though so good luck besting mordhau
mordhau, please copy TO before it's too late!

67 40
  • 1
  • 12 Jun
 Kuro1n

@marox said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

I think one of the problems that makes the matches so stale is that the points are extremely defensive atm. The defending team spawn and run straight over the spawn points and the distances between spawn waves are such sometimes (i.e. Taiga) that it is impossible to get onto the point without having a wave on the way to cross it making it impossible for a solo or small group to have impact other than by being in the frontline and smacking people.

I think if the spawns were further away from the points you capture and not behind them it would mean that you as an attacker don't have to fight whole waves of defenders who just spawned and decided to run you over. Of course the further towards the teams bases you go the easier it should be for the defending team but in the middle points it would be neat if there was more back and forth. I drew a extremely ugly image to explain. Hope anyone gets what I am getting at.

X = current map designs, Y = proposed.
current_gameplay_mordhau.png

Personally I am hyped for mod tools, I got professional experience (retired from the game industry recently) as a level designer for commercial PvP games and I really wanna work on some maps on my freetime and I am sure there are a whole load of people interested in this all around. IMHO mod tools should be prio for the devs so the community can make this game better on our own.

33 71

@marox said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

Now this is an amazing response! Wish you luck with development!

Knight 1382 3152

I feel like I should also clear something else up.

I'm not bashing on the overall quality of the art and maps in the game.

This is content most likely none of us could have ever made. They're objectively pretty. But they're also generic, stale, and otherwise sub optimal.

(it's good art, it's just not the art we're looking for)

Mountain Peak is a good example. It's a pretty map, that with some blizzard effects, would be pretty fucking cool (oh my god that's a pun). The huge problem with it is that 2/3 of the entire fucking map serve no purpose and are completely pointless. "flanking" you say. What the fuck do you mean flanking when people just spend the entire game on the flanks and never capture the points.

Your maps need to complement (not compliment, look it up) your mode, and your mode needs to take advantage of everything your maps have to offer.

90% of crossroads literally serves no purpose as it's a KOTH map and should just be put into its own rotation because it's pretty much a completely different mode. The reception of crossroads would have been FAR less negative if it was introduced as a new KOTH mode.

Camp's objectives swerve in a zig-zag and create large zones of pointless TDM in the middle of the map. On top of the fact that this map takes place during the middle of the day on an open field. It's the most boring map we have in the game. Give it rain, make it darker, it will be interesting to look at then.

Taiga is actually visually interesting, it's set in interesting lighting while also having an interesting overall visual design. The problem it still has, however, it's basically just a glorified TDM map.

Grad is getting near to how a map SHOULD be. What it NEEDS, is a change in lighting, and a ram objective to bust open the gate in the castle once you clear the barricades out of the way. "but there's already big holes in the castle you could run through" Yeah, well close those up and add spawn ramps like how mountain peak has them in the side of its castle walls. "but this would make it blue sided" Yeah, well time to make team objective.

Stop setting your maps in the middle of a clear day, it's sterile. Give it clouds and rain, give it wind and have leaves being blown off trees into the middle of the battle, flashes of lightning light up the darkened battlefield, sandstorms, thick knee high mist, a fucking eclipse. ANYTHING to make it not just "another day".

Crossroads is a good test in dramatic lighting, but it's obviously way too strong because quite a few people have issues with target ID in the middle of the map.


We all love this game, and want it to become even better. And while I may seem like I'm ripping apart pointless parts of the game to make issues that aren't actually there, well. Lets put it this way.

Do you want mordhau to be a flash in the pan like the majority of games nowadays? Or do you want mordhau to keep going, and going, and going?

Again,

Chivalry's gameplay was TRASH. Yet it kept going, and going, and going. Not because it didn't have competition, but because it was exciting and engaging, DESPITE the huge flaws in its gameplay.

If Chivalry went on for as long as it did with its gameplay.

How fucking long will Mordhau go for if it gets to where it needs to be?


Also for those wondering, @crushed works on weapon balance and animations. He doesn't do any work related to this thread and doesn't matter here, he's just upset that people are laughing at him because of the heavy handaxe balance.

The devs we're looking for are:
@marox as the lead dev (he posted while I was writing this and I had to edit the whole thing god damnit)
@elwebbaro as the lead art dev
@Vesanus as the level design dev
@Grator works on maps too.

The work these devs have done as a mostly inexperienced team is incredible. There is no denying it. They just needed this push in the right direction to make Mordhau unstoppable.

34 37

Just give us an SDK and actual ranked matchmaking (ranks that rise and fall and pit you against similarly ranked players).

Knight 5096 6836

@marox said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.

You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.

This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.

See Crushed, this is an actual, well thought out and much needed response.
Your words are reconforting as ever Marox, they are higly appreciated.
As for Tim's argument, i believe he is right, these last days i have been preferring to put my free time into other games, and i feel guilty for liking the scenery and visual style of the chivalry 2 trailer (game which i hope flops and gets torn banner in the same ruins they left their own comunity in). I honestly miss TO a lot, and frontline while fun, lost its novelty fast for me. I'm really looking forward to all the content you have in store for us though.
Just because the game has a "released" label on it doesn't mean it's late to make it be the game everyone's been dreamlng with for years in these forums, including you devs.

777 1029

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

There was a lot more subtlety to it than that. Through the context of their actions, the armor they wear, their voices and lines, the home maps of each faction. They all built on the lore

Masons were clearly more blue collar. Rough around the edges. More brutal in nature as they are likely more used to a brutal way of life, having lived on the lower rungs of feudal society until the rebellion. Their maps are industrial, darker, usually more makeshift or run-down.

Agatha seem to be more refined white collar types. The actual lords of Agatha and their warriors. Pompous and entitled, arrogant and confident, they see themselves as righteous defenders of the peace and of their homeland. Which is a bountiful land of shiny castles and innocent villages. Which they have no interest in sharing.

When you think "Agatha", you can have a decent picture of what the land and its people are like, which is something unique about a multi-player experience with essentially no lore. Chivalry sucks you into the world in such an organic way that you don't even notice.

Mordhau puts you on a battlefield and says "that guy is wearing a different colour than you are. Kill him." And that's all we got.

Knight 26 32
  • 13 Jun
 Korendil

Remember when Chivalry had that map making contest? We got some good maps out of that. Would be cool to have something similar here.

I was disappointed in Crossroads as it emphasised the parts of the game I personally find the most frustrating: projectiles and horses. I was hoping it would be the more urban style maps that were teased a while back. Hopefully they'll come soon. As far as Crossroads is concerned, and as a new major map release, it only ended up making me step away from the game for a bit.

Knight 918 2523
  • 13 Jun
 Pred

@smellycathawk said:

@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:

There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.

There was a lot more subtlety to it than that. Through the context of their actions, the armor they wear, their voices and lines, the home maps of each faction. They all built on the lore

Masons were clearly more blue collar. Rough around the edges. More brutal in nature as they are likely more used to a brutal way of life, having lived on the lower rungs of feudal society until the rebellion. Their maps are industrial, darker, usually more makeshift or run-down.

Yes, teams had identity, but I spent good 4 seconds wondering if this part should count as lore, and decided it's not entirely that. But maybe it is.

Anyway, having two distinct teams was good for years of memery on reddit, though it would be hard to transfer to Mordhau because customization and voices are all available for both teams.

1111.png

Duke 544 898
  • 13 Jun
 Goatie

They should make two voices of the same 'type' and split them between the two teams. So another similar to cruel and another similar to foppish etc. That way there is recognisable grunts in combat and a sense of identity for each team without losing the 'type' of voice you like if you pick the other side.

5 8
  • 13 Jun
 Varathius

Relax girls, it is a trailer....
Why do you girls always just want one game? I welcome a second. Let Mordhau Devs do what they want as soon as they listen to some community input (not all tho), and worst or best case you play both the games.

367 340
  • 1
  • 13 Jun
 Peacerer

During alpha i sometimes have asked those few of the remaining 30 people who were coming online daily if they weren't getting bored ingame. Were they still coming online just for the sake of it or were they really enjoying the game so much.
Because i sure was bored as hell from time to time, i've even gone for like 2-3 months in between. Some of them kept quiet, some of them responded, some of them told me to f* off, while the truth is often many of them just trolled ingame without actually playing it.

Actually, some of them said game was going to change big time at release, it just need more content etc. I also said in alpha and will say it again, despite massive success game was released to early.

Offtopic/
Often i got that feeling (not just with Mordhau) people are afraid to tell criticism. It's like die hard fanboys should defend their precious game 100% although there might be some parts of the game they don't really like. I gave thumbs-up to Mordhau the moment comments had been enabled on Steam. I do think game is good. But that doesn't mean i have to be quiet about the aspect and parts of the game (or developers) i don't like or think it's not made right. What i mean to say is You don't have to be afraid to express yourself. ;)

95 81
  • 13 Jun
 HalldeiMaul

Happy to see Marox posting about this.
Let's be honest - there's about 6-9 months time in which to gain an extra advantage over Chiv 2, and if by then map count, quality of life features and general development hasn't doubled, a ton of people will get sucked into Chiv 2 if is even remotely better in some aspects, and in general just because someone who likes "Games like Chiv" will obviously buy a game like Chiv. I know I will, simply because there's literally only 2 games like this on the market for me at the moment.

But let's not just fixate on the TO mode, even if I sorely wish for that as well.
If you want the game to keep living, you need to keep the community viable. That means fixing issues like spawnkilling, finally banning griefers and trolls, paying attention to reports about them, and giving the community quick and easy and reliable to use tools for that to begin with.

Since this last bit of cleanup QoL takes very little time to implement compared to building maps and modes, could we maybe rush this so that 5 nights out of 7 there aren't people placing barriers at spawns, beartraps at spawns, teamkilling etc pp?
I'm kinda running out of places where to ask for this and I know I'm not the only one who gets annoyed by playing becoming pointless because 2-3 people team up to grief the shit out of others due to having no life.
Griefers need to permanently lose access to the game, period. Its the only way to keep a community going and put up warning signs for others.

96 128
  • 13 Jun
 Reapy

@Peacerer said:
During alpha i sometimes have asked those few of the remaining 30 people who were coming online daily if they weren't getting bored ingame. Were they still coming online just for the sake of it or were they really enjoying the game so much.
Because i sure was bored as hell from time to time, i've even gone for like 2-3 months in between. Some of them kept quiet, some of them responded, some of them told me to f* off, while the truth is often many of them just trolled ingame without actually playing it.

Actually, some of them said game was going to change big time at release, it just need more content etc. I also said in alpha and will say it again, despite massive success game was released to early.

Offtopic/
Often i got that feeling (not just with Mordhau) people are afraid to tell criticism. It's like die hard fanboys should defend their precious game 100% although there might be some parts of the game they don't really like. I gave thumbs-up to Mordhau the moment comments had been enabled on Steam. I do think game is good. But that doesn't mean i have to be quiet about the aspect and parts of the game (or developers) i don't like or think it's not made right. What i mean to say is You don't have to be afraid to express yourself. ;)

Agree here. I put the alpha down after about 2 weeks or so when it came out. I liked what I saw but wasn't sure I wanted to bang my head against everything and didn't think I'd be good enough to have relevant feedback to the combat system vs the chiv vets already in game to steer it right. I just wanted more content and wanted to see the game polished up.

And they really did a great number on everything. I could tell during the stress test the modes needed to be tweaked a lot. Thing is I think that they could not tweak the maps well without player count anyway. They didn't have a diverse population, it was top heavy with skilled players that all know each other. It won't show how the world will play the game.

Now they have that data and hopefully some time to ramp up, maybe even hire a few more artists and level designers to in the next few months to ease the workload. The start mordhau has now is great, they just need to play around and find the right game modes/maps. Even if you want to argue the frontline objectives aren't fun or whatever, you can see that the hooks are in place for designers to make a good map.

Moving parts activated by switches. Doors with health points and damage states. Dynamic objectives like torchers / tents changing as you progress. Pushable carts along paths. NPC bosses. Able to change environments, say what you will about camp but the way the mid section of the map changes as those towers go down and defenses are built up hints at incredible potential. Cap points seem to have controllable verticality and I like the way it adds up defenders/attackers for control.

All in all there's a lot of working tech in place that just needs to be designed nicely.

Honestly I REALLY like grad (and I'm a sucker for bright and sunny to be honest, I love bright and sunny grass), while it needs some tweaks it is my favorite map by a long shot. I

Next I'd say camp because the gameplay feels fun to me and I enjoy the skirmish around the river a lot. I feel like it's the most varied in terms of game results, and I've gotten to fight on every section of the map mostly. The part on the left from blue side isn't usually to populated but have had a lot of good 2v2's 1v3's etc over there.

I haven't been able to get into Taiga since whatever changes were made, but with some tweaking I'd put that right up there with grad. I'd really like to see the fight pushed to some of those flank areas that are pretty interesting and get rid of how oppressive it is to lose the fort on blue.

Mountain peak I just straight up hate. No other way to say it, when it gets picked it's just a smash up the middle. When blue is winning it's a giant cluster fuck of too much rapid spawning madness, when red is winning it's too hard to stop the torch throwers and it just sorta ends.

Crossroads I'm sort of on the fence with. I like being able to get on a horse and play with balista and catapults finally. It's a map where you might actually want to be an archer. I also like how none of it matters because you need to just cluster fuck the treehouse. That's also why I sort of don't like it as well, all that stuff on the edge of the map doesn't matter at all. So it's sort of a love hate with it.

I think the idea of the map is good, just that center fort doesn't quite utilize enough going on. What I think this map should end up being is the time for engineering, polearms, throwing weapons, and archers to shine. I think if you ripped down a lot more of the walls and exposed it to horses, also allowed more player built defenses in there, and also had some choke points in front of the cap for either side, it might be better.

Essentially I'd want to see horses be able to sweep the bottom part, but you have to dismount and fight to cap up top, sort of like now. But I really want horses to make a mess of the bottom, so players will end up just setting up wood palisades and billhooking one another and really ramp up the anti horse, but they still would have to push in past all that to cap the point once a team is set up. I dunno though have to think on it more.

So, just looking at Taiga, it really hints at something. When you are blue and you take the fort. It's awesome. It feels great sieging it, it feels so good to get a foothold on it and move out to the next section. It's great. It is only marred by the fact that as you are trying to take it you are losing the game, and how easy it is to lose it again. If once you got it, you held onto it forever as in TO, the whole experience would be great. Just a small tweak to alter how you'd feel about the whole thing.

I know some players mentioned how a few other games went point positive from capping things and I'd love to try something like that out.

Finally, I think the dev team could do with a weekly blog post to just say what they are working on. I think marox's post here is what a lot of people want to see and there's no sense burying it 3 pages into a forum post. That first post with screenshots of the city map was a good precedent and I hope they continue along those lines.