Mordhau

Huntsman is a badly designed perk

404 604
 smug

Huntsman as it stands is a badly designed perk whose only purpose in the game is to make people NOT play archer/longbow.

1.It greatly lowers the skill ceiling of archer 1v1s because it rewards 1 hit kill bodyshots. Archer v Archer should primarily be a battle of who can either A.Land the first headshot or B.Have the more consistent aim + better dodging while also getting more bodyshots than the other archer. Right now huntsman makes even the most retarded/autistic archer sitting at the back of the map that ends up with 5 kills and 3 assists at the end of the game a threat to the best archer with 30 kills and 40 assists by letting them frag him with a bodyshot, it's actually insane how anyone thought this was a good idea other than people who have never played a competitive fps in their lifetime.

2.It lets other people counter archer far too easily ^

3.It's so retardedly strong that it's a complete paradigm shifting perk where you ARE AT AN ABSOLUTE disadvantage playing a no huntsman archer loadout. Just from the fact ALONE that you will get shit on in archer 1v1s probably 50% of the time even though the person has worse aim. Seriously if you removed this perk there would be so many archer builds that you could do. Recurve melee hybrid is an interesting concept but then you realize you have to be a complete idiot not to run huntsman.

4.It's intended purpose was to make archers focus one another. It accomplishes this but the rationale behind the perk doesn't make sense at all. Archers SHOULD have to focus eachother but the caveat is, when I'm focusing another archer it's because he's a good archer who is pressuring my melee allies. Right now I'm focusing an archer for the SOLE REASON that he could have huntsman perk equipped, and as a consequence I could be snuck up on by a bad aimer at some weird angle in a 48 man frontline, which is NOT how huntsman should work. I shouldn't have to worry about an archer who is no threat to my melee line, and in most of my FL games even if I die every so often to a huntsman retard, it doesn't matter because I assisted in 5 kills + killed 2 in that life. You are in effect creating archer players who are contributing absolutely nothing to the game.

I'll prolly edit in more later, but the perk is just flat out bad for the game.

If you really MUST have a huntsman like mechanic in the game, it should in all reality be offloaded onto a heavy crossbow with MAJOR movement penalties to offset the 1hit kill on archers.

OR

Here's a better designed alternative: Huntsman now gives you an enhanced multiplier dmg effect on HEADSHOTS, but it lowers the bodyshot damage you do. The thing about this is you can make this apply globally to all characters not just people with quivers. It also encourages more skilled projectile plays.

8 5
  • 8 Jun '19
 AlbaCorvus

I would agree I rarely play archer because of huntsman and I actually hit most of my shots but i usually get more value out of melee since i can cleave through a team with a war axe and bloodlust without having to worry about being one shot from super far away by someone who's level 2. Also the people that flank with throwing knife+ huntsman are cancer. When im a good melee player i cant be countered, When im a good archer I can be hard countered with ease by players id normally wipe the floor with on melee.

404 604
  • 8 Jun '19
 smug

@AlbaCorvus said:
I would agree I rarely play archer because of huntsman and I actually hit most of my shots but i usually get more value out of melee since i can cleave through a team with a war axe and bloodlust without having to worry about being one shot from super far away by someone who's level 2. Also the people that flank with throwing knife+ huntsman are cancer. When im a good melee player i cant be countered, When im a good archer I can be hard countered with ease by players id normally wipe the floor with on melee.

It's actually retarded that people with throwables can equip huntsman.

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  • 8 Jun '19
 smellycathawk

I just move around a lot and wait to see where archer fire is coming from then pick them off. I like that there is something i can reliably 1 shot besides headshots on helmetless guys, cause there aren't many of them.

17 6
  • 9 Jun '19
 BuffRobloxGuy

I think it makes sense as is. They can't have archers 1 shotting melee kids, because then bows would be the best weapons like a barret 50 cal. But in the archers vs archer it makes it more realistic which is fun. If you don't want to get killed maybe bring a toolbox so you can build some cover.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 smug

@BuffRobloxGuy said:
I think it makes sense as is. They can't have archers 1 shotting melee kids, because then bows would be the best weapons like a barret 50 cal. But in the archers vs archer it makes it more realistic which is fun. If you don't want to get killed maybe bring a toolbox so you can build some cover.

The realism argument doesn't make sense because then bows would do 0 damage outside specific arrow heads, and no one would be using swords against 3/3/3 loadouts.

The devs aimed to make this a game where good players are untouchable. Don't believe me? They said it in a youtube video somewhere just go find it. Huntsman is a skill equalizer that goes against their philosophy by making good archers touchable by bad ones. Imagine if there was a perk targeted toward plate armor that gave you 1 hit kills against plate users when using the war hammer or some retarded bullshit. However even there my analogy fails because there exists counterplay for cheesy melee strats such as parrying, you cannot parry a center mass shot in an archer 1v1, you can only strafe slowly and hope they miss. My alternate suggestion for a new version of huntsman makes a lot more sense if these is indeed a "skill based pvp game"

The only people who think huntsman is balanced are either: A.bad archers who benefit from the 1 hit bodyshot on other archers or B.Don't actually use longbows enough to actually realize the flaws with how the game handles ranged combat. C.People with an inherent bias toward anything that isn't melee gameplay whose myopic point of view is damaging torward the game.

I'm not even biased in favor of ranged weapons, 70% of my game time has been on duel servers. My perspective is a guy who has a history of play competitive fpses, and this would be a cancer perk in any other competitive game if it existed there. The only reason why the community accepts this crap is because people in general hate archers for all the wrong reasons.

Furthermore the recent patch shows that the devs want archery to be a viable playstyle. They are nonexistent in competitive play as it is, and even if they buff them to be viable there, the next sticking point that people will complain about is huntsman dumbing down archer 1v1s. There is little skillgap that exists between archers when the highest probability shot(center mass) yields greater returns than hitting a lower probability shot(the head) combined with the slow strafe speed while aiming.

80 117
  • 9 Jun '19
 PinkerStinklage

Anything that encourages archers to focus on each other rather than shoot into a melee cluster fuck is A-okay in my book.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 smug

@PinkerStinklage said:
Anything that encourages archers to focus on each other rather than shoot into a melee cluster fuck is A-okay in my book.

I don't know if I conveyed it in my OP, but archers WOULD already focus on eachother without a perk that makes longbow 1v1s the lowest skill ceiling activity in the game. It's sort of patronizing that they think people need a perk to do something they already know to do.

Crossbow counter archery existed in Chiv, people would literally tunnel vision you in a chiv server if you were doing good as an archer.

The point is the perk serves no other purpose than one that is detrimental to the game.

Interesting unrelated observation: a recurve melee hybrid build is probably more viable than ever and potentially broken in pubs, because they added a 1h weapon for 3 points that 2-3 hits and has messer level drags. broken as fuck but probably a subject for a different thread

104 70
  • 9 Jun '19
 urm

I agree with most of this. It also creates a weird dynamic in pugs/comp, if both teams decide to run an archer. Generally the guy who loses the archer duel swaps to crossbow+huntsman, and pretty much forces the other archer to do the same. But crossbow is pretty bad against melee, so as a result both of them just kinda have a shootout off to the side. Huntsman, especially at 1 point also promotes 0 armor double crossbow play, which I'm not sure is a good thing.

1756 1814
  • 9 Jun '19
 SWSeriousMike

I'd expect it to get worse for archers with javelins in the game now.
If you want to move with the pack and support, you probably won't use the recurve bow as long as Huntsman is in the game. Javelins just do it better/with less risk.
I'd just disallow medium+ armor for archers. That's enough incentive to shoot them. Huntsman takes it too far in my opinion.

104 70
  • 9 Jun '19
 urm

@SWSeriousMike said:
I'd expect it to get worse for archers with javelins in the game now.
If you want to move with the pack and support, you probably won't use the recurve bow as long as Huntsman is in the game. Javelins just do it better/with less risk.
I'd just disallow medium+ armor for archers. That's enough incentive to shoot them. Huntsman takes it too far in my opinion.

Realistically, you are already not wearing heavy armor as an archer. The only archer build I use that wears t3 chest is my crossbowman, and even that's only due to huntsman dropping to 1. They could just make ranged weapons cost a bit more if they wanted to restrict armor

The main advantage bows have over throwables is ammo. Throwables do a lot more damage, but you get at most 4. They are also much easier to block than arrows.

Overall I feel like archery is a bit stronger this patch, mostly due to relevant perks being cheaper. Also it feels as if recurve+ranger is slightly faster during draw now, but maybe it's because I haven't played for a couple of days.

17 6
  • 9 Jun '19
 BuffRobloxGuy

Recurve bow is super strong right now and javelin isn't nearly as long range as recurve. Longbow didn't get buffed nearly as much as recurve and is basically good for anti archer only. A good archer can evade the arrows mid flight, even shoot them out of the air. If you're getting surprised by archers it's because you're not looking around enough. Huntsman is a good perk, archers are a nuisance and not being able to deal with them in 1 hit would be terrible.

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@BuffRobloxGuy said:
Recurve bow is super strong right now and javelin isn't nearly as long range as recurve. Longbow didn't get buffed nearly as much as recurve and is basically good for anti archer only. A good archer can evade the arrows mid flight, even shoot them out of the air. If you're getting surprised by archers it's because you're not looking around enough. Huntsman is a good perk, archers are a nuisance and not being able to deal with them in 1 hit would be terrible.

Agreed I also like the huntsman perk. With arrows flying as slow as they do now, figthing against other archers while having the huntsman perk equiped is the only time in the game where bows feel actualy good to use and not like total worthless garbage.

@BuffRobloxGuy said:
Longbow didn't get buffed nearly as much as recurve and is basically good for anti archer only.

  • The speedincrease from 5300 units to 5600 units is not noticable at all. Thats a complete joke.
  • They let you pull the string 100 ms faster, again barely noticable, but therefore you reload 100 ms slower.
  • Longbow costs still 11 points, which it is totally not worth in its current form.

The only good thing is that huntsman costs now 1 point less to buy.

I think every Archer should have huntsman from the beginning without having to buy it for points.The moment you equip a bow you get huntsman. Then it would be fair again and you would have ontop of that 2 points to spend for a extra beartrap or firebomb or throwing axe or whatever. They could even make it that you are not allowed to use lvl 3 armor at all no matter how many points you have and are only allowed to use 1 level 2 armor gear and everything else has to be level 1 or lower.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 Shovonem

What you are saying is understandable. Perhaps activate hunstman only for projectiles (throwables and weapons) and not for bows/crossbows so you can still 1 shot archers with throwing axe, javeline etc but increase skill ceiling for archer vs archer.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 smug

@BuffRobloxGuy said:
Recurve bow is super strong right now and javelin isn't nearly as long range as recurve. Longbow didn't get buffed nearly as much as recurve and is basically good for anti archer only. A good archer can evade the arrows mid flight, even shoot them out of the air. If you're getting surprised by archers it's because you're not looking around enough. Huntsman is a good perk, archers are a nuisance and not being able to deal with them in 1 hit would be terrible.

The longbow's niche shouldn't be anti archer it should be the crossbow's niche, and ironically enough the crossbow benefits MORE from the LB than the LB itself. The longbow by design is a sustained dps weapon that is SUPPOSED to excel at harrassing the melee line. Whereas the crossbow is a BURST weapon that isn't working as its supposed to WITHOUT huntsman because the developers overnerfed archery as a precaution because of their Chiv experience.

Archers aren't even the biggest nuisance in the game against 3/3/3 loadouts unless you get headshots the most you will do is tickle someone, and if they aren't in a team fight it's extremely easy to parry arrows. This makes low pop count games like comp 5v5 skirmish require an archer to play absolutely godlike, because you have to justify fielding an archer over a potential halberd/evening by having him do insane amounts of DPS.

If we're talking about frontline there are countless other things more annoying than archers now including 50 a hit bodyshot Javs. Yet I don't see perks where we can 1 hit horse mains, or ballista boys, or catapult bros.

The next time you think the nerf gun arrows in Mordhau are even relevant I want you to watch this video:

and countless others to realize it has been and could be a lot worse.

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  • 1
  • 9 Jun '19
 smellycathawk

Since archers are usually behind their dudes the farthest enemies are other archers, so they wouldn't be worth shooting at, at all, if they couldn't be one-shot. Which would just give more incentive for archers to ruin the melee, and since archers wouldn't be killing each other the cancer would be thicker and more constant.

The perk itself may have flaws, but the one-shotting itself is absolutely necessary.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 SoRoofless

I agree, I think archers should have to land 2 body shots on each other, or a single headshot. This is pretty basic FPS logic for sniping.

Knight 51 67
  • 9 Jun '19
 GramzontheDragon

I think the reasoning is that an archer is so far away that you need to be able to one shot to get the kill, otherwise they can take cover and regen instead of kicking the bucket. Like camping in grad tower.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 Cheto

They made the one shot BS perk because they know it is a fucking miracle that you land an arrow on someone at a long distance with that arrow speed that feels like you are launching trucks instead of an arrow.

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@SoRoofless said:
I agree, I think archers should have to land 2 body shots on each other, or a single headshot. This is pretty basic FPS logic for sniping.

In every other fps with bows and arrows in it, the arrows fly way way faster. In mordau you can basically sidestep incomming arrows on reaction, if you get shot from more then 30 meter away. Beside this game has health regen, so even if you manage to hit someone on longer range, because he stood still, thx to the immensely long reload and pulling the string animation of the longbow, your enemy is allready in cover waiting for his regen, the moment you are ready to fire again.

It feels really as if most of those suggestions made here come from people who never ever played the archer class in this game.Or at least not longer then 5 minutes.