Mordhau

I feel like dodge is borderline pointless.

5 0
  • 3
  • 23 May
 Divenity

In light of the fact that people can sprint while swinging their weapons (just never stop holding the sprint key), the dodge perk seems all but pointless, it's just as fast if not faster to simply turn and sprint in the direction you want to dodge, even in full heavy armor...

I feel like a minor buff to the dodge perk, or a rethinking of allowing people to swing their weapons while sprinting, is in order.

Probly unpoular opinion to all the spin to win people out there who just sprint in circles swinging their weapon wildly, but IMO swinging a weapon should stop the player from sprinting until the swing is completely finished, right now all it does is slow them down a tiny bit, but it's still well ahead of non-sprinting speed. As it stands currently, there is never a reason to stop holding down sprint, and no mechanic that stops you from doing it, and that seems ridiculous to me. Sprinting should not be the go-to default combat pace.

133 167
  • 23 May
 Atlas-D

Then what would stop the guy attacking a player with dodge from whiffing and getting hit?

5 0
  • 1
  • 23 May
 Divenity

@Atlas-D said:
Then what would stop the guy attacking a player with dodge from whiffing and getting hit?

For starters, if you whiff punishment is expected... and you can always combo to get another swing started, then feint it and block.

Secondly, the guy with dodge can't sprint while swinging either, nor can he dodge forward. He dodged backwards he now has the same distance between his swing and you as your swing was to him, if you couldn't hit him, he won't be able to hit you unless his weapon is a decent bit longer or you keep walking into it. The latter would be your own fault.

8 2

Its simply not the same mechanic, you cant sprint backwards or side to side while facing your enemy as you can with dodge. You may be hugging to close to use it? if you dodge and the person is running at you and just hits you; well that means you dodged to early. Its generally for out ranging a single attack and usually when that attack is already in progress.

I personally find it to be one of the best perks in game.

5 0
  • 23 May
 Divenity

@HABITUALOFFENDER said:
Its simply not the same mechanic, you cant sprint backwards or side to side while facing your enemy as you can with dodge.

I hardly find that relevant when a person can do a 180 degree turn in 1/50th of a second.

Knight 99 263
  • 23 May
 GAYFISH

While the idea of restricting you from swinging while sprinting is a terrible one, the OP isn't wrong about dodge being mediocre at best.

A really simple way to buff it is to allow you to dodge forward.
The reason dodge isn't great is because it can be only used to dodge away from an attack which is very easy to counter with morphs and lunge. The only exemption being side dodging into an accel overhead but those are extremely risky and hard to do.

If you were able to dodge forward it would open up a lot more tactics for aggressive footwork and countering dodge wouldn't be as easy as sprinting while you morph drag every attack.

To compensate for the buff the cost should probably be 6 or 7 points,
and for love of god please give us the option to have to separate keybinds for jump and dodge.

5 0
  • 2
  • 23 May
 Divenity

@GAYFISH said:

A really simple way to buff it is to allow you to dodge forward.

They really doesn't fix anything.

They should just make the dodge go further. The problem is that it's easily countered by just sprinting at the person dodging and that it because dodge doesn't cover ground any faster than sprinting does, while costing stamina.(which is also why letting you dodge forward would fix nothing, sprinting forward covers the distance just the same)

If they just made it go further it would be fine.

While the idea of restricting you from swinging while sprinting is a terrible one

As for this, I can't agree with you. There's currently no reason to ever let go of sprint in this game, I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. Sprinting should not be the combat pace, otherwise the sprint function may as well not exist and that should just be the default runspeed.

And you go sprinting while flailing a sledgehammer around, we'll see how long it takes you to fall on your face.

Knight 99 263
  • 23 May
 GAYFISH

@Divenity said:

@GAYFISH said:

A really simple way to buff it is to allow you to dodge forward.

They really doesn't fix anything.

They should just make the dodge go further. The problem is that it's easily countered by just sprinting at the person dodging and that it because dodge doesn't cover ground any faster than sprinting does, while costing stamina.(which is also why letting you dodge forward would fix nothing, sprinting forward covers the distance just the same)

If they just made it go further it would be fine.

While the idea of restricting you from swinging while sprinting is a terrible one

As for this, I can't agree with you. There's currently no reason to ever let go of sprint in this game, I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. Sprinting should not be the combat pace, otherwise the sprint function may as well not exist and that should just be the default runspeed.

And you go sprinting while flailing a sledgehammer around, we'll see how long it takes you to fall on your face.

The devs aren't going to remove a massive part of combat just because it would benefit your specific playstyle, that's ridiculous. Also realism is a terrible argument against sprinting and swinging.

And the only thing increasing dodge range would do is turning it into the noob crutch that it was in Chivalry.
Personally I'd like it if the dodge itself was slightly faster but range is fine.

You've got to keep balance in mind when suggesting gameplay changes, that's why small incremental changes are better than big changes like you're suggesting.

14 14
  • 1
  • 23 May
 Bellon

I agree with @GAYFISH .

Another possibility is increasing the distance of the side dodges (edit: just a bit, we don't want people flying all over the place), making them actually useful outside of dagger range. It could make people second-guess their own drags and accels, actually making you more unpredictable. I don't like how Dodge's only real purpose is to get a couple extra inches backward. Dodging is far more exciting when you stay in their range. Much more beneficial when you aren't using a spear as well.

777 1029

@Divenity said:

@GAYFISH said:

A really simple way to buff it is to allow you to dodge forward.

They really doesn't fix anything.

They should just make the dodge go further. The problem is that it's easily countered by just sprinting at the person dodging and that it because dodge doesn't cover ground any faster than sprinting does, while costing stamina.(which is also why letting you dodge forward would fix nothing, sprinting forward covers the distance just the same)

If they just made it go further it would be fine.

While the idea of restricting you from swinging while sprinting is a terrible one

As for this, I can't agree with you. There's currently no reason to ever let go of sprint in this game, I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. Sprinting should not be the combat pace, otherwise the sprint function may as well not exist and that should just be the default runspeed.

And you go sprinting while flailing a sledgehammer around, we'll see how long it takes you to fall on your face.

u came up with a topic worth discussing, gayfish a more experienced player refined your post down to the actual problem/solution, and you ignore him, even doubling down on the terrible sprinting idea... lol

gay has the correct answer.

1308 2875
  • 23 May
 Monsteri

Dodging forward would allow you to jump out of telegraphed drags on the regular and it'd actually be a massive buff.

Knight 925 2541
  • 23 May
 Pred

Yeah, maybe just make it a MAA dodge while we're at it.

/s

1092 1726

I would like to see it cost more but get a buff... mainly because an armored knight with 1h stands before me and starts sliding away without warning haha no it's not a very good perk but it shouldn't be on T3 guys and if it gets a point cost increase it should get a buff too.

Gayfish may have the right idea.

777 1029

There are things about chiv that made dodge more easily balanced. Like just by seeing or even hearing the player character you at least knew they have dodge, and how many hits you'll need to kill them. In mordhau dodge should also have a unique sound que at least.

5 0
  • 1
  • 23 May
 Divenity

@smellycathawk said:

@Divenity said:

@GAYFISH said:

A really simple way to buff it is to allow you to dodge forward.

They really doesn't fix anything.

They should just make the dodge go further. The problem is that it's easily countered by just sprinting at the person dodging and that it because dodge doesn't cover ground any faster than sprinting does, while costing stamina.(which is also why letting you dodge forward would fix nothing, sprinting forward covers the distance just the same)

If they just made it go further it would be fine.

While the idea of restricting you from swinging while sprinting is a terrible one

As for this, I can't agree with you. There's currently no reason to ever let go of sprint in this game, I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. Sprinting should not be the combat pace, otherwise the sprint function may as well not exist and that should just be the default runspeed.

And you go sprinting while flailing a sledgehammer around, we'll see how long it takes you to fall on your face.

u came up with a topic worth discussing, gayfish a more experienced player refined your post down to the actual problem/solution, and you ignore him, even doubling down on the terrible sprinting idea... lol

gay has the correct answer.

I didn't ignore him, I gave counterpoints.

Letting you dodge forward fixes nothing, because simply sprinting covers the distance just the same without costing stamina, or 4 equipment points.

How, exactly, does that solve anything at all? Please, do tell.

Conscript 186 472
  • 2
  • 23 May
 Shovonem

I personally find a issue with buffing dodge is that currently you can use dodge with Spear and spear is the longest weapon in the game. Buffing their ability to get away further etc will make it absolute cancer to fight with short weapons like Bastard Sword, War axe, maul etc.

I honestly think having some kind of soft class system would've been nice in Mordhau. Like for example, If dodge point cost is reduced but make it so you can only use certain tiers of weapons, then dodge could actually be decent because you can have decent armor and weapons with it. But not a weapon that's too long. Perhaps even buff dodge a bit with better stamina negation and add front dodging like Gayfish suggested. Dodge having more points will just make it so
either your armor/weapon will be really bad. Means it will be neglected in Competitive like it does now.

1092 1726

@Shovonem said:
I personally find a issue with buffing dodge is that currently you can use dodge with Spear and spear is the longest weapon in the game. Buffing their ability to get away further etc will make it absolute cancer to fight with short weapons like Bastard Sword, War axe, maul etc.

I honestly think having some kind of soft class system would've been nice in Mordhau. Like for example, If dodge point cost is reduced but make it so you can only use certain tiers of weapons, then dodge could actually be decent because you can have decent armor and weapons with it. But not a weapon that's too long. Perhaps even buff dodge a bit. Dodge having more points will just make it so
either your armor/weapon will be really bad. Means it will be neglected in Competitive.

I think (where dodge is concerned) the soft class thing can be done by increasing point cost and making it fairly impossible to start out with dodge and zwei/spear etc. Then a buff to dodge would be necessary to justify point cost increase.

Conscript 186 472
  • 1
  • 23 May
 Shovonem

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I think (where dodge is concerned) the soft class thing can be done by increasing point cost and making it fairly impossible to start out with dodge and zwei/spear etc. Then a buff to dodge would be necessary to justify point cost increase.

Perhaps. But to give an example of what I mean, let's say dodge is buffed and point increased to 6. You can 10 point to work with. You want a good weapon. So battle axe (6) + medium head armor(2) + medium torso (2) + no leg (0).

Why would anyone go 2/2/0 Battle Axe in a 5 v 5 Competitive game? Especially when you can go 2/3/0 Halberd which is FAR superior for Competitive team fights. Or When you can put on 3/3/3 (Full Heavy) with battle axe + bandage. Big weapons/big armor will always be meta for team fights. The only way people would choose dodge with weak armor/weapon is if it's buffed to Chivalry man at arms level of dodging. A cancer that most people never want to see in Mordhau.

Knight 7682 14091
  • 23 May
 ToLazy4Name

Dodge is a difficult thing to balance. Too far in either direction and it becomes underpowered or overpowered.

133 167
  • 23 May
 Atlas-D

@Divenity said:

@Atlas-D said:
Then what would stop the guy attacking a player with dodge from whiffing and getting hit?

For starters, if you whiff punishment is expected... and you can always combo to get another swing started, then feint it and block.

Secondly, the guy with dodge can't sprint while swinging either, nor can he dodge forward. He dodged backwards he now has the same distance between his swing and you as your swing was to him, if you couldn't hit him, he won't be able to hit you unless his weapon is a decent bit longer or you keep walking into it. The latter would be your own fault.

Beep wrong, most weapons aren't fast enough to combo again, especially if the opponent just stabs.

he won't be able to hit you unless his weapon is a decent bit longer

This is flat out wrong, you can get a lot of reach with even a short weapon by just holding W and stabbing.