Mordhau

Competitive Matchmaking destroys games

Knight 399 868
  • 22 May
 Alphonse

I think they should indeed make a competitive mode with some sort of ELO based matchmaking for duels, 3v3 and/or 5v5. That way people who are competitive will have an option to progress and naturally get better at the game, improving their chances in all other game modes.

The only competitive game with such a system I've played with is Rocket League, which is highly popular and has the numbers to do matchmaking without 15 minute queues, even in a less populated region like South America. Even the casual modes have a pretty strict matchmaking and almost every single match I join can be fun and competitive. Sure, there's some griefing and toxic bullshit, but it would exist even without such a system. Regarding smurfing, indeed there are/were lots of smurfs which they couldn't fully fix. For PC they allow only the owner account to play competitive (which can be easily implemented in Mordhau), and in consoles Psyonix didn't want to upset Sony and Microsoft (they can make 5 or infinite accounts to smurf with).

Not sure if Mordhau will be able to maintain such a system, but it's definitely something you want in competitive games with a high skill ceiling.

@Rergato said:
To be honest, he’s making a valid point. Chivalry had this problem by having level 0-15 servers... they’d quit by the time they hit 16, lol.

Most of those players would've quit the game anyway. I know it's hard to "open your mind", empathize with other opinions and stuff, but let me just say this. It takes a very particular kind of person (a sort of competitive masochist with maybe some autistic traits) not to get completely frustrated with a game were you could easily go 0-25. Not everyone bothers to watch YouTube guides on how to git gud, join alternative channels to practice and git gud, etc. So, thinking that every other noob is like you and will stick with a frustrating game is just dumb and egotistical. Therefore, it makes perfect sense for a game developer to look into ways of making things less frustrating for newbies and potentially long time players.

In the case of Chivalry, firstly, they implemented those servers too late, when the player count was diminishing. This was around the time they started offering free play weekends as well.

Second, the biggest problem was that Torn Banner copped out and didn't bother to add servers for the next skill tier, like levels 16-30. They just threw them out the door to play versus more experienced players. The player numbers being so low, hosting servers being so expensive, etc. probably didn't warrant such a system.

Third, they renewed their UI to add "tutorials" and "guides" like 3 years after release, which was obviously too fucking late.

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@ArmouredTopHat

like your icon just wanted to say that

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@Saoirse said:
I'm all for competitive as it definitely expands the life of games I feel because people will constantly strive to improve keeping them playing longer.

Just have two matchmakings:

  • Casual - Everyone plays together regardless of rank (what we have now).
  • Ranked - Competitive mode where you are matched based on some form of MMR.

Everyone is still going to still be able to play and learn in server browser so I don't think your concern of people getting trapped in MMR is going to be an issue, it will only matter for the few modes of competitive matchmaking. Plus competitive likely isn't going to have Frontline so most players will still mingle in Frontline.

id change Casual to Normal less of an alienation to it makes Ranked seem more prestigious as well

777 1029

Yeah it sure did kill the top played games on steam. I mean all of the long term top steam games are casual garbage with no competitive modes whatsoever. Dota, siege, csgo, rocket league, none of these games are successful and its cause they have comp modes.

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  • 1
  • 22 May
 fOx_

Same with Rainbow Six: Siege - after introducing competitive matchmaking and improving it constantly the game received a huge boost in players even though it was almost dead.

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@fOx_ said:
Same with Rainbow Six: Siege - after introducing competitive matchmaking and improving it constantly the game received a huge boost in players even though it was almost dead.

it threw me off when a friend told me he played it I was shocked only to find out it had gained a lot lol

Conscript 76 108
  • 22 May
 KineticWolf

@fOx_ said:
Same with Rainbow Six: Siege - after introducing competitive matchmaking and improving it constantly the game received a huge boost in players even though it was almost dead.

Is that the agreed-upon concensus of why Rainbow Six Siege increased in popularity, all down to ranked matchmaking?

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  • 22 May
 D3nTe

But today's mentality is that ranked = competitve / play properly, non-ranked = trolling allowed. Don't get me wrong, I don't like that mentality but I've seen it in plenty of games.
League of Legends is the perfect example. You either play casual where your team mates will troll, feed and reply with "iTs NoRmAl GaM sO ItS Ok", or you play ranked with all the toxic idiots. I ended up playing ranked because that's the only place people try to actually play the game and you can mute chat anyways.
I wish people would try to win and try their best (in a good way, as in being competitive, not being a toxic immature cunt) without ranked, but they won't.

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I really feel like the OP is out of touch with the community who wanted this game and where they come from; heres why I say this.

I played chivalry in its early access stages and became very good at it, I have 1k hours in chivalry and I have not played it in 5 years. Even though I was very skilled at an early time in the games creation I still completely dropped the game and all the invested time once I understood the developers had no intention of pushing the competitiveness the game naturally demands along with no new content. (also when they made deadliest warrior game version, yuck)

I sorely missed that game and when Mordhau's kickstarter was announced I hopped on that faster then a white knight hits subscribe to a webcam of cleavage on Twitch.

I am sure alot of us who have been waiting for a developer to grab hold of this genre and do it justice would agree that one of the driving forces for the game and most any game is a competitive value that can also provide you with a feeling of accomplishment and exclusivity.

I can't wait to see the systems that bring the game into a competitive realm, I should hope that most people who enjoy a game such as this feel the same way.

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  • 23 May
 Digganob

@Zherot said:

@DylanS_98 said:
I want competitive modes.

Why? Give me a good fucking reason.

A good fuckin' reason is that people want it, and it won't ruin your gameplay, because it will be a SEPARATE MODE my guy. Even if everyone wanted something utterly ridiculous like a game mode where you are given aimbot crossbows or something dumb like that, it wouldn't ruin the game because it would be a completely separate facet of the game which you DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE PART IN.

If the grand majority of people want something, that won't affect you in any way besides making you sneer in derision at the concept of it, then there's no reason that they shouldn't make it happen. It's like if there was an update that added the option of making every player shine with the colors of the rainbow, but you could just turn it off. It wouldn't affect you in anyway, so just chill and think of something constructive to argue about my guy. You can and will still be stomped by superior players constantly once they add ranked, and nothing will change that.

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  • 23 May
 Zherot

@Huggles said:

@Zherot said:

@DylanS_98 said:
I want competitive modes.

Why? Give me a good fucking reason.

Cus it's fun to be competitive.

Not with an arbitrary mmr system that does everything i described in my post.

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  • 23 May
 Zherot

@D3nTe said:
But today's mentality is that ranked = competitve / play properly, non-ranked = trolling allowed. Don't get me wrong, I don't like that mentality but I've seen it in plenty of games.
League of Legends is the perfect example. You either play casual where your team mates will troll, feed and reply with "iTs NoRmAl GaM sO ItS Ok", or you play ranked with all the toxic idiots. I ended up playing ranked because that's the only place people try to actually play the game and you can mute chat anyways.
I wish people would try to win and try their best (in a good way, as in being competitive, not being a toxic immature cunt) without ranked, but they won't.

Perfect example.

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  • 23 May
 Zherot

People that say ranked makes games popular are delusional and stupid... The game has to be good to begin with ro succed, mordhau doesnt even have the population.

11 10

The game sold well over 500 k copies, wildly beyond the dev's expectations, it most certainly does have the population for a competitive mode considering its such a niche game.

This game is ripe for a competitive mode, since there are currently no real fresh competitors aside from I guess For Honor, and given the games good state at the moment, its got a lot of potential to establish itself.

Its also pretty silly to think that a competitive mode would decrease population, when in fact it would most likely serve to increase the games longevity and therefore population over time. If you don't want to play competitively, then keep playing regular matchmaker as always to have fun!

People who are worried about toxic twats have a fair point, but at the same time people who stick with this game tend to be a little more mature than the average Dota player/ equivalent game. Either way we wont know until we try!

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  • 23 May
 Holden

I don't want to sound like an elitist but I feel that I've gotten very good at the game, but there are still plenty of people who are better than me. When I play against most people they don't ever use feints, morphs, drags or accels, and they fall for a basic morph every single time. This instills bad habits in me when I'm constantly playing average or lower end players and dulls my senses and puts me into this autopilot mode where the game is less engaging to me because I can just do the same thing over and over again and win. Whenever I go to a duel server I end up constantly seeking out the guys who are better than me so I can improve and better myself at the game. Get better at reacting to morphs and drags/accels and feints etc...

In like, a shooter game I could see your argument. Your skill is constantly improving even if you're fighting less skilled players because good positioning and fast aim/reflexes is always going to be rewarded in a shooter environment, but playing against low skill players just makes you worse in this game. So I really would like to be able to have a system in place where I can fight similarly skilled or more skilled players constantly.

I don't want to sound like an asshole here but you really just need to not take things so personally. So what if some guy thinks he's hot shit for having a high rank or sells his account or whatever? If you're having fun just playing the game then you shouldn't let what other people are saying in chat bother you that much. I mean it would be like having a breakdown every time someone says fuck you in the chat or something.

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  • 23 May
 DylanS_98

@Zherot said:

@DylanS_98 said:
I want competitive modes.

Why? Give me a good fucking reason.

So I can play against people slightly below my skill level, at my skill level, and slightly above my skill level. I'm NA and have been struggling for the past week trying to find some sort of competitive group and or clan to really practice with to get better at the game. Going into a public duel yard for me warrants one of three things.

  1. Facing someone extremely better than me that I have no chance of beating. Usually an alpha player.
  2. Face rolling my opponent
  3. Very rarely fighting someone as mentioned above. (of equal or in range of my own ability)

So I want a competitive mode to get more fair, consistent fights at my skill level so I can improve. Trying to out play someone who has 1k hours on me is kind of redundant, and smashing someone who can't even begin to read morphs let alone a feint; is not helping me learn. Competitive doesn't destroy games. It gives an incentive to keep playing. As many have said before, if you dislike it then.. don't play it?

777 1029

@Zherot said:
People that say ranked makes games popular are delusional and stupid... The game has to be good to begin with ro succed, mordhau doesnt even have the population.

Look at him projecting while being factually incorrect.

6 1
  • 23 May
 fOx_

@KineticWolf said:

@fOx_ said:
Same with Rainbow Six: Siege - after introducing competitive matchmaking and improving it constantly the game received a huge boost in players even though it was almost dead.

Is that the agreed-upon concensus of why Rainbow Six Siege increased in popularity, all down to ranked matchmaking?

I don't think so but I personally feel that's the biggest factor. R6 is a highly competitive game and it's casual matchmaking doesn't even reflect half of the game's potential.

Conscript 185 472
  • 2
  • 23 May
 Shovonem

It's the complete opposite of what you are saying. Because if there's no Competitive Matchmaking, Comp players will just keep playing in private locked servers as a lot already do now. So most casual players will never be able to face competitive players thus dividing the community. With competitive mode, the new players will have a clear path to go through that journey. Comp rewards, rankings, leaderboards etc also give reason for players to stick with the game for a long time, get better etc. Pubstomping is boring af too.