Mordhau

Proof that kicks on shields are badly balanced and ridiculously OP

549 615
  • 19 May '19
 Deadmode

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Deadmode said:
I'll continue to mess around and explore it, as more things may be more apparent with more playtime.

Seriously, man. You totally missed the opportunity for a bad pun. "I'll continue to messer around..." You dun goofed. ;)

And I do love a good pun :(

I've let the people down.

187 94
  • 19 May '19
 Mackintoke

@SirDiesalot said:

In the game, I'd really like to see more engaging gameplay for shields. In the game, shields are quite static and boring. They are just a board you can hold up to protect your face. Historically however shields were weapons as much as they were for protection. With a shield you could push, bash, slam and batter your opponent in order to hurt him and knock him off balance (getting hit with a heavy shield pretty much knocks the air out of your lungs, it is hard to keep standing). I think it would be fun to implement some of this in the game, where shield users could get a powerful short range attack with their shield but at the cost of leaving them exposed.

Like in Chivalry Deadliest Warrior the Spartan class could shield bash, and the Viking could throw his shield lol. Fuck me, the Viking even had dual wielding. I wanna see dual wielding in this game, like Aurthur Dayne in GoT show.

777 1031
  • 19 May '19
 smellycathawk

A lot of the people arguing here (basically all) are nubs talking about fighting other noobs. This is not how you ultimately determine what is and isn't "balanced" in a skill based game with a sky high ceiling...

187 94
  • 19 May '19
 Mackintoke

@Eyedrops @HospitallerDevilize

Excellent posts, both of you. Here, have a thumbs a up.

6 15
  • 19 May '19
 BOT

maybe give it a "critical chance" type of affect when it comes to knocking back. I think the kick is one of the only ways to stop people from spam holding there right mouse button when having a shield. I dont really know about the invisible reach so i wont say much about it. But I do know that the shield its self can be over powered and a well placed kick can be one of the only things to stop someone camping in a corner with there shield up.

187 94
  • 20 May '19
 Mackintoke

@BOT said:
maybe give it a "critical chance" type of affect when it comes to knocking back. I think the kick is one of the only ways to stop people from spam holding there right mouse button when having a shield. I dont really know about the invisible reach so i wont say much about it. But I do know that the shield its self can be over powered and a well placed kick can be one of the only things to stop someone camping in a corner with there shield up.

Aye, and in Chivalry there was the heavy kick (you hold down F key for it) which was slower but stronger, would kick people back further and would stagger the victim, leaving him vulnerable for a second.

111 97
  • 20 May '19
 BOBOLOJOE

there seems to be an invisible wall around the shield because some very accurate hits around the sides or over the top of the shield seem to still get deflected.

just reduce the size of the hit box of the shield and make people have to turn their body more to block attacks coming from the sides and over the top

6 5
  • 20 May '19
 QuoteMarks

While on the subject of shield balance, What about the parry shields, the Targe and Buckler? Why do they have worse parry ranges (Block View Tolerances in the stats menu) than for example, the Wooden Mallet? They can't hold block so why are they balanced as if they can?

31 32
  • 20 May '19
 Saoirse

@Christian2222 said:
I absolutely don't believe someone kicked you from across fire. You can dodge back and avoid a kick. Kicks are still situational, and no pro player is going to let someone kick them. Sounds like some lag or something happened.

I went out with my shielder, and people were trying to kick me, and I just side stepped, and fucking stabbed them, and laughed at how ridiculous they looked, because kick is slower than a fucking stab. People who think kick is OP are delusional, it is the easiest thing in the world to avoid, plus you can just kick to counter it.

you don't like your shield nerfed? Fine, don't blame kick.

I don't use shield often but I'm inclined to agree that kick feels broken against shield right now.

I played a single match with my shield guy earlier and the enemy team used kick a decent amount and often I was hit after I had moved to the side and the range felt awkward on direct kicks. Like even if I stepped back, simply because they pressed F before I moved back the kick still hit me from 8 feet away.

Kick should be away to deal with shields, but it shouldn't feel like a direct counter and OP simply because you have a shield.

187 94
  • 20 May '19
 Mackintoke

@BOBOLOJOE said:
there seems to be an invisible wall around the shield because some very accurate hits around the sides or over the top of the shield seem to still get deflected.

just reduce the size of the hit box of the shield and make people have to turn their body more to block attacks coming from the sides and over the top

^^ this is what I think will do the trick, match hitbox to exact shield shape and size. I mean that's fair, right? That's something everyone expects to be. The Kick band-aid appears to be wonky for people.

Devs should redo the kick animation entirely, get someone to motion capture a new set of animations so the attack range matches the animation properly, right now they say it seems odd.

Mercenary 2193 3913
  • 20 May '19
 EruTheTeapot

Shield should explode If held up more than 3 seconds.

Mercenary 1193 2178
  • 20 May '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

Is it really that hard for shield users to either:

  • walk backwards when defending
  • not hold their shield up 24/7?

How kick works against shield rn is a good thing, it keeps it from being a crutch for bad players and forces you to learn the game even if just a little. You still have the advantage of long parry times and being OP in team fights.

150 58
  • 20 May '19
 Botas

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Is it really that hard for shield users to either:

  • walk backwards when defending
  • not hold their shield up 24/7?

How kick works against shield rn is a good thing, it keeps it from being a crutch for bad players and forces you to learn the game even if just a little. You still have the advantage of long parry times and being OP in team fights.

Is it really that hard to use your brain and not say retarded shit?

Mercenary 1193 2178
  • 20 May '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@Botas said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Is it really that hard for shield users to either:

  • walk backwards when defending
  • not hold their shield up 24/7?

How kick works against shield rn is a good thing, it keeps it from being a crutch for bad players and forces you to learn the game even if just a little. You still have the advantage of long parry times and being OP in team fights.

Is it really that hard to use your brain and not say retarded shit?

If you're such a genius I'm sure you have an actual argument?

549 615
  • 20 May '19
 Deadmode

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@Botas said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Is it really that hard for shield users to either:

  • walk backwards when defending
  • not hold their shield up 24/7?

How kick works against shield rn is a good thing, it keeps it from being a crutch for bad players and forces you to learn the game even if just a little. You still have the advantage of long parry times and being OP in team fights.

Is it really that hard to use your brain and not say retarded shit?

If you're such a genius I'm sure you have an actual argument?

Don't feed the troll

35 20
  • 20 May '19
 Esselbink

Sigh, sorry OP but please take your shitty playstyle and skills to the training grounds and practice on how to dodge kicks or just let go of the right mouse button. It is not possible to kick across the entire diameter of a firebomb explosion, so that would have been either a glitch, lag or he just wasn't as far as you thought. Kicks aren't OP it is more likely your dissatisfaction comes from the shield nerf.

3 4
  • 20 May '19
 D3nTe

While I hate the shield users as much as the next guy in Frontline, I'm not sure how I feel about the current state of the kick against shields.
When I see a shield guy alone I know it's a free kill. All I have to do is kick into an attack, repeat, and repeat in case he's not dead. Lone shields became extremely weak, but they weren't that impressive to begin with. The annoying things about shields remained though. I'm thinking about the fact that the shield seem to cover a huge area on the side of the user, even beyond the model of the shield. Flanking and hitting from the side never seem to work unless you're sitting literally behind him.
Currently shields can prove useful in a group, they prevent wide 2 handed swings from cleaving the entire group, while being relatively safe from kick spam. They're weak in a 1v1 situation, but they can simply put the shield away and duel without it.

549 615
  • 20 May '19
 Deadmode

@D3nTe said:
They're weak in a 1v1 situation, but they can simply put the shield away and duel without it.

In my playtest with them, as posted earlier, I had no trouble facing Frontline players in 1v1 with a 3/3/3 shield & messer or bastard sword build. The key is keeping the initiative, but that is no different with any weapon. I also didn't feel any 'weaker' because I had a shield at all.

If a shield players start holding RMB, then yeah, you're right.

367 341
  • 20 May '19
 Peacerer

@BOBOLOJOE said:
there seems to be an invisible wall around the shield because some very accurate hits around the sides or over the top of the shield seem to still get deflected.

just reduce the size of the hit box of the shield and make people have to turn their body more to block attacks coming from the sides and over the top

There seems to be an invisible holes all over the shield because some very inaccurate hits directly into the shield seem to still get through.

Just increase the size of the hit box of the shield and make people don't have to rely on rng factor to block direct attacks coming infront of them.

Not sure if you know but at one point during alpha developer(s) unmasked their true passion biased on behalf of 2h weapons so clearly that they made shield collision narrower than weapons' collision. Can you imagine that? A 3 cm wide blades had wider collision than a half meter wide shield. This was just one of many ridiculous failed attempts by developers to "fix" shields.

150 58
  • 20 May '19
 Botas

@D3nTe said:
While I hate the shield users as much as the next guy in Frontline, I'm not sure how I feel about the current state of the kick against shields.
When I see a shield guy alone I know it's a free kill. All I have to do is kick into an attack, repeat, and repeat in case he's not dead. Lone shields became extremely weak, but they weren't that impressive to begin with. The annoying things about shields remained though. I'm thinking about the fact that the shield seem to cover a huge area on the side of the user, even beyond the model of the shield. Flanking and hitting from the side never seem to work unless you're sitting literally behind him.
Currently shields can prove useful in a group, they prevent wide 2 handed swings from cleaving the entire group, while being relatively safe from kick spam. They're weak in a 1v1 situation, but they can simply put the shield away and duel without it.

Quoted for truth