Mordhau

The Longbow Isn't Worth 11 Points

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  • 1
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

I agree that recurve and xbow are better than longbow. The main thing going for longbow is that it's good both against melee and archers, unlike recurve being bad in ranged duels and xbow being bad against melee. I could see the cost being reduced to 10 or even 9. 9 might be a good number, because then you are choosing between recurve + perks or long bow.

I doubt it would see play in comp though, even at 9 points. Recurve mobility allows you to play very close and land shots much more reliably, and if the enemy is running an archer you just switch to xbow for pretty much free kills (unless they are running xbow in which case you are forced into an xbow shootout most of the time). The only niche I could see it being used in, is when you are far better than the enemy archer, so you can win the longbow vs xbow duel and then keep shooting into melee enemies with longbow which is more efficient than using xbow.

404 604
  • 5
  • 26 Jun '19
 smug

Recurve + Ranger is probably better in ranged duels vs pub retards. I doubt even above average longbow players have the aim, while also being hindered by the slow projectile speeds and draw time AND crosshair sway to hit someone who's strafing properly with ranger.

The only thing the crossbow is better at than the longbow is counter archery which is a nonissue if you get good at the LB, and it would be even less of a factor if huntsman didn't exist.

The crossbow is immensely underwhelming for it's drawbacks.

Knight 156 154
  • 26 Jun '19
 Peregr1ne

The longbow needs tweaking generally. Maybe the point cost could be the same as the recurve and crossbow but honestly the longbow and crossbow are both stupidly overpowered at the moment, for the same reasons crossbows were overpowered in Chivalry. Both weapons boast insane damage which at times can one tap people in the chest which might be okay if the arrows/bolts didn't travel like bullets. I can tell you that trying to dodge such projectiles with a recurve even with ranger is next to impossible. And one lucky bodyshot will end everything for me.

I just don't see how people can think these two weapons are weak. The few times that I use the crossbow or longbow are when I pick them up off the ground from a teammate/enemy and even then, with only 3 shots at my disposal, i'm capable of doing some significant damage to the opposing team. Enemy archers especially I can pick off one by one while barely even trying. By contrast, whenever i'm up against the average longbow/crossbow main the amount of times I get killed by them is absolutely ridiculous. I've played scrims fairly recently, using the same loadout I use in pubs, and I've actually had more trouble dealing with the average pub longbow/crossbow main at range than a full tier 3 competitive player in melee.

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

@smug said:
Recurve + Ranger is probably better in ranged duels vs pub retards. I doubt even above average longbow players have the aim, while also being hindered by the slow projectile speeds and draw time AND crosshair sway to hit someone who's strafing properly with ranger.

The only thing the crossbow is better at than the longbow is counter archery which is a nonissue if you get good at the LB, and it would be even less of a factor if huntsman didn't exist.

The crossbow is immensely underwhelming for it's drawbacks.

In pubs yes, crossbow is a bit weak. Although it is great for killing engineers using mounted crossbows.
It is also much safer to use when the enemy has multiple archers going specifically for you.

In competitive though you can't rely on being significantly better than the enemy archer, so crossbow is better than longbow there for sure, even if they had the same point cost.

777 1031
  • 26 Jun '19
 smellycathawk

@Peregr1ne said:
The longbow needs tweaking generally. Maybe the point cost could be the same as the recurve and crossbow but honestly the longbow and crossbow are both stupidly overpowered at the moment, for the same reasons crossbows were overpowered in Chivalry. Both weapons boast insane damage which at times can one tap people in the chest which might be okay if the arrows/bolts didn't travel like bullets. I can tell you that trying to dodge such projectiles with a recurve even with ranger is next to impossible. And one lucky bodyshot will end everything for me.

Doing insane damage constantly to anyone from anywhere isn't good enough if you don't want to learn how to aim and time your shots tho! :'(

I just don't see how people can think these two weapons are weak. The few times that I use the crossbow or longbow are when I pick them up off the ground from a teammate/enemy and even then, with only 3 shots at my disposal, i'm capable of doing some significant damage to the opposing team. Enemy archers especially I can pick off one by one while barely even trying. By contrast, whenever i'm up against the average longbow/crossbow main the amount of times I get killed by them is absolutely ridiculous. I've played scrims fairly recently, using the same loadout I use in pubs, and I've actually had more trouble dealing with the average pub longbow/crossbow main at range than a full tier 3 competitive player in melee.

Same way people think drags need to be nerfed and feints need to be buffed, they are retarded nubs who should be on the forums asking questions, not arguing mechanics. They know nothing jon snow

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

@Peregr1ne said:
The longbow needs tweaking generally. Maybe the point cost could be the same as the recurve and crossbow but honestly the longbow and crossbow are both stupidly overpowered at the moment, for the same reasons crossbows were overpowered in Chivalry. Both weapons boast insane damage which at times can one tap people in the chest which might be okay if the arrows/bolts didn't travel like bullets. I can tell you that trying to dodge such projectiles with a recurve even with ranger is next to impossible. And one lucky bodyshot will end everything for me.

I just don't see how people can think these two weapons are weak. The few times that I use the crossbow or longbow are when I pick them up off the ground from a teammate/enemy and even then, with only 3 shots at my disposal, i'm capable of doing some significant damage to the opposing team. Enemy archers especially I can pick off one by one while barely even trying. By contrast, whenever i'm up against the average longbow/crossbow main the amount of times I get killed by them is absolutely ridiculous. I've played scrims fairly recently, using the same loadout I use in pubs, and I've actually had more trouble dealing with the average pub longbow/crossbow main at range than a full tier 3 competitive player in melee.

This doesn't seem to match my or pretty much anyone's experience, honestly. Longbow/crossbow only one shot naked body or other archers when using huntsman. If bows were that strong, you would see them used in skirmish and FL pugs/scrims/competitive all the time, however very few teams even try, and it rarely goes well.

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

Also landing long range shots on someone who is actively dodging is just not going to happen reliably. The arrows actually travel relatively slow, and if you move in an unpredictable way, you are almost guaranteed to dodge them. The only realistic way to use archery is shooting at unaware targets that are occupied with something else, or are traveling in a straight line (such as running up to a point fight).

777 1031
  • 26 Jun '19
 smellycathawk

@urm said:

@Peregr1ne said:
The longbow needs tweaking generally. Maybe the point cost could be the same as the recurve and crossbow but honestly the longbow and crossbow are both stupidly overpowered at the moment, for the same reasons crossbows were overpowered in Chivalry. Both weapons boast insane damage which at times can one tap people in the chest which might be okay if the arrows/bolts didn't travel like bullets. I can tell you that trying to dodge such projectiles with a recurve even with ranger is next to impossible. And one lucky bodyshot will end everything for me.

I just don't see how people can think these two weapons are weak. The few times that I use the crossbow or longbow are when I pick them up off the ground from a teammate/enemy and even then, with only 3 shots at my disposal, i'm capable of doing some significant damage to the opposing team. Enemy archers especially I can pick off one by one while barely even trying. By contrast, whenever i'm up against the average longbow/crossbow main the amount of times I get killed by them is absolutely ridiculous. I've played scrims fairly recently, using the same loadout I use in pubs, and I've actually had more trouble dealing with the average pub longbow/crossbow main at range than a full tier 3 competitive player in melee.

This doesn't seem to match my or pretty much anyone's experience, honestly.

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717 604

the fact that 99% of archer mains get laid the fuck out when they switch to a melee class out of frustration should tell u a lot about the skill of archer mains

archery is situational, u shouldn't main it

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

@smellycathawk said:

@urm said:

@Peregr1ne said:
The longbow needs tweaking generally. Maybe the point cost could be the same as the recurve and crossbow but honestly the longbow and crossbow are both stupidly overpowered at the moment, for the same reasons crossbows were overpowered in Chivalry. Both weapons boast insane damage which at times can one tap people in the chest which might be okay if the arrows/bolts didn't travel like bullets. I can tell you that trying to dodge such projectiles with a recurve even with ranger is next to impossible. And one lucky bodyshot will end everything for me.

I just don't see how people can think these two weapons are weak. The few times that I use the crossbow or longbow are when I pick them up off the ground from a teammate/enemy and even then, with only 3 shots at my disposal, i'm capable of doing some significant damage to the opposing team. Enemy archers especially I can pick off one by one while barely even trying. By contrast, whenever i'm up against the average longbow/crossbow main the amount of times I get killed by them is absolutely ridiculous. I've played scrims fairly recently, using the same loadout I use in pubs, and I've actually had more trouble dealing with the average pub longbow/crossbow main at range than a full tier 3 competitive player in melee.

This doesn't seem to match my or pretty much anyone's experience, honestly.

index.jpg

right, posting shitty reaction memes is a great way to argue

404 604
  • 2
  • 26 Jun '19
 smug

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:
the fact that 99% of archer mains get laid the fuck out when they switch to a melee class out of frustration should tell u a lot about the skill of archer mains

archery is situational, u shouldn't main it

That's a red herring as almost everyone in a non competitive setting is absolutely horrid at melee.

Most archer mains in comp understand how to melee.

I'm not sure why you'd even bring up a person's melee ability when we are discussing the power of a weapon that isnt a melee weapon.

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:
the fact that 99% of archer mains get laid the fuck out when they switch to a melee class out of frustration should tell u a lot about the skill of archer mains

archery is situational, u shouldn't main it

if we are talking about pubs, then pretty much everyone playing them is shit
in competitive/pug scene, there are pretty much no archer mains, even people like me who are known as "archer mains" spend 90% of their time playing melee.

404 604
  • 3
  • 26 Jun '19
 smug

There are historical archer mains like russianmaffia, anstii etc. They probably dont get a lot of playtime with the current state of archery though, and by now they’ve played chiv/mordhau enough to have decent melee skills although probably arent autistic duelfag level. It goes to show you how fucked archery is that there arent any “new” archer mains popping up.

717 604

@urm said:

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:
the fact that 99% of archer mains get laid the fuck out when they switch to a melee class out of frustration should tell u a lot about the skill of archer mains

archery is situational, u shouldn't main it

if we are talking about pubs, then pretty much everyone playing them is shit
in competitive/pug scene, there are pretty much no archer mains, even people like me who are known as "archer mains" spend 90% of their time playing melee.

yah that seems to be the ideal way to use archery

404 604
  • 26 Jun '19
 smug

stop posting

717 604

@smug said:
stop posting

how come. u don't agree with me that archery should stay situational?

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

Can we get this thread back on track?
If you want to discuss the powerlevel of archery, there are already multiple threads with that topic.
This is about longbow, and specifically its point cost.

717 604

@urm said:
Can we get this thread back on track?
If you want to discuss the powerlevel of archery, there are already multiple threads with that topic.
This is about longbow, and specifically its point cost.

yah, i think it's weighted correctly atm because it's a very situational weapon. in my mind it should be used as like an AWP in csgo where it should be fairly useless in a fair amount of situations (unless you're insane like s1mple and just noscope dudes all day). it's a specialist weapon, reducing the point cost so ppl could make more hybrid classes seems bad to me

perhaps u can argue it needs a buff though to make it more weighted as a specialist weapon, which i wouldn't mind as much

104 70
  • 26 Jun '19
 urm

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:

@urm said:
Can we get this thread back on track?
If you want to discuss the powerlevel of archery, there are already multiple threads with that topic.
This is about longbow, and specifically its point cost.

yah, i think it's weighted correctly atm because it's a very situational weapon. in my mind it should be used as like an AWP in csgo where it should be fairly useless in a fair amount of situations (unless you're insane like s1mple and just noscope dudes all day). it's a specialist weapon, reducing the point cost so ppl could make more hybrid classes seems bad to me

I disagree. If anything, it is more of a lack of all trades compared to recurve and xbow. I would always prefer recurve against melee and xbow against other ranged, and only in the rare (in small scale/compet) case where I care about both I would pick longbow.

717 604

@urm said:

@CocyxTheGaySkeleton said:

@urm said:
Can we get this thread back on track?
If you want to discuss the powerlevel of archery, there are already multiple threads with that topic.
This is about longbow, and specifically its point cost.

yah, i think it's weighted correctly atm because it's a very situational weapon. in my mind it should be used as like an AWP in csgo where it should be fairly useless in a fair amount of situations (unless you're insane like s1mple and just noscope dudes all day). it's a specialist weapon, reducing the point cost so ppl could make more hybrid classes seems bad to me

I disagree. If anything, it is more of a lack of all trades compared to recurve and xbow. I would always prefer recurve against melee and xbow against other ranged, and only in the rare (in small scale/compet) case where I care about both I would pick longbow.

i sniped an edit in there so i'll just post it here instead: perhaps it can use a buff so it's more weighted as a specialist weapon, cause i like the idea of specialists classes being used in certain situations. it would make the comp scene more tactical oriented, yah?

basically rather than reducing it's point value so ppl can make more hybrid classes (which i dislike), u make it WORTH the points it costs