Mordhau

I play with bows and sometimes with shields I paid for the game too

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@Botas said:

@Alphonse said:
Oh yes, logic. It is highly logical that the forward kick of a 1,80 meter tall male has less reach than a 10 year old boy.

You can't combo kick into an attack and they didn't increase the stun duration, so you can bring your block up before some 2 handers connect.

You can't.

you can Ive blocked Mauls with a shield and even after getting kicked blocked a Zweihander and this was yesterday in Frontline on Offical server with 300 Ping

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  • 21 May
 Peacerer

@six said:
I think balancing it great to watch different ppl use different strategies

Though atm the game has a huge meta for using 2hs to the point where it’s pointless to use anything else. That’s a problem, but it’s also not a priority right now because they’re working on servers and making the game work and they’ll focus on weapons in the future

It's not just atm it was like this, more or less, the whole alpha. Every evening when a server or two would get populated you would see 25 players with 2h weapons, and 1 or maybe 2 shielders. Yes 1 or 2, not like 6 or something, but exactly 1 or 2. However, 2h elitists continue to complain about shields (later about archery) all the fkn time while developers bending over...

Can't you see the similar pattern right now? At release there was quite a lot (newbies) playing with shields and bows. If you play today, let's say 11 pm, on random official Frankfurt FL server, you will see maybe 5 ranged/shields and 50 two-handers.

What was the biggest thing in previous patch, again? Shield nerf.

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  • 21 May
 Roag

Can't you see the similar pattern right now? At release there was quite a lot (newbies) playing with shields and bows. If you play today, let's say 11 pm, on random official Frankfurt FL server, you will see maybe 5 ranged/shields and 50 two-handers.

What was the biggest thing in previous patch, again? Shield nerf.

Dunno what you're smoking mate but it's still shield spear/rapier central when I've played. Hard to say if there's less than there was when the game released, most likely there are less shield users because there's not as many completely new players.

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  • 21 May
 Peacerer

@Roag said:

Can't you see the similar pattern right now? At release there was quite a lot (newbies) playing with shields and bows. If you play today, let's say 11 pm, on random official Frankfurt FL server, you will see maybe 5 ranged/shields and 50 two-handers.

What was the biggest thing in previous patch, again? Shield nerf.

Dunno what you're smoking mate but it's still shield spear/rapier central when I've played. Hard to say if there's less than there was when the game released, most likely there are less shield users because there's not as many completely new players.

You're full of BS. Let's visit with me 5 random FL servers right now and whoever is wrong will say it here he was wrong.

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Turn around in a dark alleyway... 2 shield guys are right there... what do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?

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@Botas said:

@KIWI said:

@Zherot said:
I have been noticing that in this game there is a clear bias towards 2 handed weapons users, everything seems to revolve around 2 handed being at the top which is stupid because you made other options in the game like bows or 1 handed weapons and shields and for what?

You nerfed shields today even when good players told you that the only thing that needed a buff was the kick,...

You also nerfed stab even when good players told you that it was easy enough to counter it with chambers....

There is archery too, which is terribly implemented on purpose, you can parry arrows, slow proyectile speed, no stun on hit, chase mechanic that shits on Archers and again benefits 2 handed users... Damage reduced through armor, high cost in bows being unable to equip anything, archery is just a shit show...

All of the above can be traced back to 2 handed users... All of it is for the sale of 2 handed to be the best loadout.

Look, your game is good, is amazing and it is fun but to be honest i highly dislike this situation and in no way i was informed that you were meant to be playing 2 handed only and that other loadouts were just for the memes or just secondary non optimal loadouts, i thought the game was about OPTIONS and variety.

If things gonna keep like this i would like yo así for a refund, i respect that you can make the game as imbalanced towards 1 loadout as you want, but this is not what i paid for.

They've done what they have with archery and shields because in the games that inspired this one they made combat unfun. Bows could not be defended against unless you had a shield, had high damage and flew fast, and on top of that good luck catching them because they'll just kite you and fill you with arrows. Shields have been notorious for making the pace of combat turn into a crawl, and while they were fixed to fit within Mordhau's quick pace, the blocking area they previously had made the only viable way of countering them to either jump overhead or try to stam them out, which doesn't work if they're wielding something fast like the rapier. You can still play with these effectively, very effectively in fact, just don't expect either of these to carry you like in other games of the genre.
And on your point about bows being expensive, only the longbow is (with good reason), the other two let you take them, a billhook and have T2 head and chest. Even trade the billhook for a bastard sword and the T2 chest or head for a T3.

Then don't implement them in the game and don't make people believe that they can actually be succesful with them or that is a main feature of the game and just make the game around 2 handed weapons, problem solved, rithg now people like me feel really disappointed and like we were victims of false advertising.

Sorry but we have a few good archers in my clan, and they do very well because they know who to shoot at and why. They will counter arch and take out as many with no helmets or little to no armor. They also counter horsemen. Sure it takes more arrows but they are still top fragging because they have actual skill, know the best places to be while being protected and they also have a strong melee base.

What KIWI said is correct. Older games gave archers an unfair advantage of 1 shot kills at range with super strong fast melee and footwork. They basically got free kills by spamming the battlefield. This isnt the case any more and for good reasons.

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@smellycathawk said:
Turn around in a dark alleyway... 2 shield guys are right there... what do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?

If they have rapiers and there's ping issues you'll be constantly in flinch so just run. If they got something less cheesy use range/target switching into flanks. Kick is a defensive tool so you can use it defensively if one charges... you won't kick stun anybody but youll drain stamina and push one back a bit and then be able to combo from that into another.

That's if you're good. If you're not just stick to running.

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  • 22 May
 Pariah

@Botas said:

@unabridgedpenis said:
I'm sure a tantrum is the way to win people to your cause. In any case, you're complaining because you can't hold your parry without paying attention to the attacks made against you. OH NO!!!!!!! WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!!!!!!!!??????? WHY AM I TRYING TO OUT SALT THE OCEAN!!!?????

It all comes down to 2 words. Git Gud.

No imbecile, its a bout LOGIC why people even bother to bring a shield now if i have to emulate the parry of a 2 handed weapon but with less damage.

Use your brain idiot.

The issue here is how you play.

Check their kicks or hit them when they try instead of sitting there with your shield up. That's a skill that needs to be learned.

Shields have plenty of utility, from blocking projectiles, stopping multiple attacks at once, dunking on drags and masking attacks. There's still loads of benefits there over a 2H loadout.

It's still a strong tool if you know how to use it properly. Stop using a drill to hammer in a nail.

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@smellycathawk said:
Turn around in a dark alleyway... 2 shield guys are right there... what do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?

throw a firebomb and fortnight dance yourself to depression

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I literally have no issue with using shields, there just less of a brain dead 'Right click to force field' and now an item that actually requires some thought. They are still very strong, especially if your playing with a group of 6 running shields and pushing objectives in front line, not much can stop you.

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@ArmouredTopHat said:
I literally have no issue with using shields, there just less of a brain dead 'Right click to force field' and now an item that actually requires some thought. They are still very strong, especially if your playing with a group of 6 running shields and pushing objectives in front line, not much can stop you.

i used a shield as a archer counter and got called a "unskilled retard" when when ever it was out depite me using a Bastard sword in 2 hand mode when not against archers lol

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To be fair shields kinda suck as archer counters.. if youre paying attentionor charging one, you really are better off with parry. If you arent paying any attention at all theres a chance they shoot the shield instead of you but good archers just aim for your face if youre charging them... or your legs if you cover your face etc.

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  • 22 May
 Skaatje

@Zherot said:
If things gonna keep like this i would like yo ask for a refund, i respect that you can make the game as imbalanced towards 1 loadout as you want, but this is not what i paid for.

There's always going to be one meta that is the best. No matter how much that dissapoints you. I hardly think you will be able to refund a game, because of it. Just because your preferred gameplay isn't meta now, will not mean this will stay this way. If you'd be half a gamer you would know that this is the norm in all games.

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@Skaatje said:

@Zherot said:
If things gonna keep like this i would like yo ask for a refund, i respect that you can make the game as imbalanced towards 1 loadout as you want, but this is not what i paid for.

There's always going to be one meta that is the best. No matter how much that dissapoints you. I hardly think you will be able to refund a game, because of it. Just because your preferred gameplay isn't meta now, will not mean this will stay this way. If you'd be half a gamer you would know that this is the norm in all games.

that my friend is why I play for astetics I enjoy the game way more

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@Lionheart Chevalier said:
To be fair shields kinda suck as archer counters.. if youre paying attentionor charging one, you really are better off with parry. If you arent paying any attention at all theres a chance they shoot the shield instead of you but good archers just aim for your face if youre charging them... or your legs if you cover your face etc.

oh I mean it as more of a defence due to my constant 300 ping timing parrys when your ping is that high is hard

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@Antoniokontos said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
To be fair shields kinda suck as archer counters.. if youre paying attentionor charging one, you really are better off with parry. If you arent paying any attention at all theres a chance they shoot the shield instead of you but good archers just aim for your face if youre charging them... or your legs if you cover your face etc.

oh I mean it as more of a defence due to my constant 300 ping timing parrys when your ping is that high is hard

wait, what? Why are you playing on servers with 300 ping? That is your first problem. The game isn't really playable beyond 120 with any degree of consistency. You need to play on servers where your ping is under 100. If you are having internet issues, get off of wireless if you are on it and spend $20 and get a 50" network cable and tuck it under the baseboards if you have too. If you are still having issues, make sure you have the game ports opened on your router and tweak your network card settings via the TCP/IP optimizer from speedguide.net there you can run networking tests and see if you have any issues.

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  • 30 May
 Fr_067Alph

@Botas said:

@Fr_067Alph said:
I really don't care about the shields nerf. It wasn't rocket science to counter them (hugging, kicking, outspacing etc.) but now it seems the nerf was targeting the ones who would turtle. It only helps new player / players who have more trouble with the game. Shield still are a really good aid against archers and to avoid completely the concentration needed to read someone with their feints and morph. It's bascically a support item for people having trouble with 2 handers or wtv that feints a lot (though extreme feinters are easily punishable with their lack of stamina management and people need to learn that)

In short, if you can't counter a shield (whom 90% of users are brain dead) You really, unironically need to get good at the game.

The irony is the people that tell the shield users to git gud now are the ones that could not get good even though beating shield users wasn't even that difficult as some good players already pointed out, they were so bad that the developers had to come and nerf the shit out of shield so they can now think "they are good" because kicking now is an "i win button" vs any shield user.

No, not at all ! You shouldn't see it as a ''I win button'' but more like a ''fuck off'' button. If you get constantly kicked, stop raising the shield unnecessarly. You should still only block at alst time. The shield serves the purpose to block arrows and to allow a second chance if you panic block cuz of an intense feint from the ennemy. NEVER should you raise it for no reason. Using a shield is not only blocking, but having a totally new playstyle. Pros that use shields often automatically kick if an opponent approaches them to counter a possible kick, else, it'll do damage at least. It's an aid for noobs to learn to block, but it's a totally new playstyle / tactics for pros that really want to make it viable.

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From what I've seem at the last tournament pros are still better off with 2h weapons. Target switching is just less impressive with a 1h. Shields don't change that.

Maybe it's different in frontline. The tournament was skirmish only.

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"Dont raise your shield all the time"

WRONG

You are supposed to keep your shield up, even at the "wrong" times. Shield is an archer counter and it has to be up to block anything (not that it currently does a very good job blocking arrows.) Kick stun only guarantees shields fail at 1vX but still allows them to stay up in XvX and ganks. Kick stun hasn't solved anything.

We should not be discouraging shields from being used or from being raised all the time, we should simply be allowing them to be side hit, face stabbed or leg hit when raised. Shield users may not have to read feints but they should still have to read morphs and swing manipulation.

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  • 31 May
 Eyedrops

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Kick stun hasn't solved anything.

I agree with everything else you said except this. I honestly think people just aren't kicking enough.

Idk how 1h shield performs in duels but I've heard it's not very good. My perspective is from playing lots of Frontline and TDM.
I assigned kick to one of my thumb mouse buttons and kick people often, shield or not. Shielders I find a lot easier to kick because while under pressure a lot of (average) players will turtle, leaving them stationary and ready to be kicked. Just look at a heater shield facing directly at you as your queue to kick. Of course it's not so simple as to work every single time, but it's effective.
Obviously kick stun means a guaranteed follow up stab which can be repeated locking the person in stun-stabs but I'm sure most people know that. Horde is good practice for kicking shielders and getting the stun-stab down.

Kicks alongside dragging, chambering, and putting a lot of pressure on shielders IMO is enough for shields to not be a problem. Idk how things are in tournaments or high level play, but from playing the game normally I think shields are fine. They do what they're supposed to do, add protection and prolong death, but they can be dealt with. Let's also add in the element of skill. Some players will lower their shield after a morph or feint allowing for a hit, some won't fall for it so easily. Some players will just face hug you with their shield up and allow for easy kicks, some will apply more pressure. Good players will often do well regardless of their build. It's not the build that's broken, some builds just require a different approach than others. Some builds are fucking annoying like rapier and shield, but fucking annoying doesn't mean broken, OP, needs fixing etc.

Attacking around the shields like Lionheart Chevalier suggested could be interesting. Having to kind of face towards the direction of the attack with shield up otherwise the attack could hit around the shield? That would be dope.