Mordhau

How to improve offense?

7 1
  • 15 May
 Shyguy

So I've got about 30 hours in and I'm getting comfortable with morphing and feinting and even chambering which I can do somewhat consistently. But the wall I'm running into is that a lot of it doesn't seem to matter when trying to kill people? Morphing doesn't seem to trip people up that much because most players block right before my swing makes contact so the initial animation doesn't seem to have much effect. Feinting is more effective sometimes but it seems far less useful on heavy weapons since people seem to be able to do a 2nd block before I can wind up a swing.

Even chambering, which I thought would be a major help to actually killing people doesn't seem to matter much. Most of the time people just parry it anyway which seems like a low payoff for how much more difficult it is to do vs just right clicking and riposting. Like I almost seem to have -more- mixup options from a regular block.

Idk I'm just not sure how to get around the seemingly very easy right click guard in PvP. I don't think i'm the only one since rarely do I see a single enemy as a huge threat to my life most of my deaths are to stealth horses, mobbing and catapults.

109 167
  • 3
  • 15 May
 Speak

I think the key when trying to feint-and-hit with a heavy weapon is to really "max out" both your feint and your swing. By which I mean feint as late as possible (or maybe as early as possible while still tricking them? I kinda suck at feinting) and accel your swing as hard as possible.

I suck at feinting because I get an insane amount of mileage off of Battle Axe's morph game. Battle Axe's stab does low damage, but because its speed is so different from the speed of Baxe's swing, you can stab people a couple times until they're wary of it, and then do a stab morph and take their head off.

Although I suppose you can do the same mixup with any weapon as long as you threaten a quick stab (so quick that they have to parry very early to block it) and then convert it into a slow (dragged) hit. Long weapons like Zwei seem like they can have surprisingly fast stabs because the weapon is so long that the tip of the weapon is already near the enemy at the start of the stab, so if you threaten that kind of stab and then morph it into a slash, you probably hit em unless they specifically see it coming.

So stab>slash morphs have a lot of strength. I haven't really used slash>stab morphs at all yet, but I imagine they only really work if you threaten an accel slash (e.g. a forward-bending overhead) and then morph it into a stab (perhaps a dragged stab).

My understanding of chambering is that the real value of it is not that it's fast (it's not much different from a riposte in that regard) but that it's fast and morphable/feintable. So yes, they can parry (or even chamber) your chamber, but that means you have an opening to punish their parry with a changeup, meaning you instantly converted their attack into your own meaty initiative. As I understand it. I'm not that good in practice. Yet.

(Also, of course, going for a chamber means you'll hit someone who's trying to feint you.)

(The downside of chamber being that it eats so much stamina compared to parrying. So you have to make the most of its value or you're putting yourself at a stamina disadvantage.)

Knight 7759 14276
  • 15 May
 ToLazy4Name

You didn't mention dragging.

109 167
  • 2
  • 15 May
 Speak

Jokes on you my edit mentions dragging twice (offhandedly).

But OK you can also drag. To look convincing and therefore get any value off of it, I think you have to threaten an accel and then move around so that you actually hit them late instead of early. So like bending forwards and starting an overhead, and then turning and adjusting so that you end up hitting them in the feet with the last part of the swing. Or just stabbing and then moving your stab into them.

Which is stupid. That that's possible. To hurt someone by hitting them with the side of your stab. its dum

Anyway I guess dragging is the only way you can really mix-up a riposte (which is otherwise very predictable, but is essential in a 1vX because of its flinch armor), so it's important and I need to git gudder at it.

Knight 7759 14276
  • 15 May
 ToLazy4Name

@Speak said:
Jokes on you my edit mentions dragging twice (offhandedly).

the OP, not you, I didn't even read your post

109 167
  • 15 May
 Speak

o, ok

additional remark for OP: If you want to really learn how to get around a block in a 1v1, hop on a duel server (aka a Deathmatch server with "duel" or "1v1" in the name). Duel someone with a high K:D and you'll learn a lot about how to get around someone's block. :P

185 205
  • 15 May
 Roag

Dragging well is fundamental to improving - using the feint/morph mechanics will only get you so far if you can't establish a proper 50/50 by dragging. This means when you're attacking it's a mix of accels, feints/morphs and drags thus making your attacks harder to predict.

Feinting/morphing is not difficult, chambering is more complex but still not rocket science (I personally only chamber stabs) if you are pulling off chambers then chamber-morphing/feinting is a great way of applying pressure - if you feel like you have these down then focus on learning to accel and drag well, as you said it's mostly about tricking your opponent aka masking your drags.

Most of improving at melee games is knowing what you need to work on, if it's dragging then pick a weapon like longsword or messer and practice - there is no substitute for experience when it comes to swing manipulation.

7 1
  • 15 May
 Shyguy

I know about dragging. But so far that seems to have had less results than feinting or morphing so I'm not sure how players are using it to create mix-ups. Most vids I've watch explain how to do dragging but few examples of how to use it. Idk how big the parry window is in this game but it feels like it lasts as long as even a long drag

109 167
  • 1
  • 15 May
 Speak

Lemme just say this thing I already said, again:

"I think you have to threaten an accel and then move around so that you actually hit them late instead of early. So like bending forwards and starting an overhead, and then turning and adjusting so that you end up hitting them in the feet with the last part of the swing. Or just missing your stab and then moving your stab into them (while it's still live)."

This guide includes gifs/vids of drags.

Like, here's a stab drag

Although I think stab drags are gross and shouldn't work as well as they do.

1154 1807

Dragging was designed to be very hard in this game, more about footwork than about looking away. At the end of the day though, a drag is just a rehearsed move much like it was in Chivalry.

To get good at rehearsed moves you have to rehearse them :p

So lean into a practice dummy's left side and start a right slash then lean back and move to your practice dummie's left side. Try to make the end of your swing hit the right side of his neck.

Then you'll take this to actual players who move around. Once you've rehearsed how to drag you must rehearse new drags centered around moving targets. The real skill in dragging is in tracking and preventing your opponent from dodging the drag otherwise it really would be 100% rote memory.

Remember to also try overhead and underhand drags.

A few hundred hours from now you'll be another Great Sword drag queen. A few hundred hours later you can try your hand at overhead and underhand waterfalls.

529 280

Run in circles, duck, jump, twitch your mouse around hitting the V key, hit X 1 to flourish when face hugging, look in random directions. Don't do anything intuitive to actually fighting, basically. Everything you would do in a real fight? Don't do it. Be completely random, and spazmatic in your movements, feints, and morphs.

162 124

during beta, etc, devs were discussing on adding Active parry with chambers, but there isnt an animation for it to look good. hopefully its an idea that would be later implemented when they have the time to make it work.
Possibly a way to make chambers more useful, high reward in 1vx.

529 280

@Schwarzchild said:
during beta, etc, devs were discussing on adding Active parry with chambers, but there isnt an animation for it to look good. hopefully its an idea that would be later implemented when they have the time to make it work.
Possibly a way to make chambers more useful, high reward in 1vx.

What does this mean exactly?

Remove parry, make sword clashing easier to do :P, keep chambers. Would love this game.

162 124

@Christian2222 said:

@Schwarzchild said:
during beta, etc, devs were discussing on adding Active parry with chambers, but there isnt an animation for it to look good. hopefully its an idea that would be later implemented when they have the time to make it work.
Possibly a way to make chambers more useful, high reward in 1vx.

What does this mean exactly?

Remove parry, make sword clashing easier to do :P, keep chambers. Would love this game.

you get a parry hitbox during chambers to make it useful for 1vx fights

  • also i hope clashing gets some sort of change to make it useful competitively than for show