Mordhau

Rapier Balance

950 1582

You just came onto this forum to reiterate the same points made in my first comment about how it's not viable at high level play... and ignored the problems with rapier altogether.

Thanks, for agreeing with me there at least. But you're useless for describing how to counter rapier, everyone knows how to counter rapier in a duel. Every 1h will fall short in a duel if a 2h opponent can read through its cheese long enough. But this isn't about how good rapier is or even about dueling. This is about Frontline. Rapier is "good" against noobies for all the wrong reasons. It's all over FL for the wrong reasons. And don't bring up reaction times, we all know if everything were perfectly telegraphed and readable, no one would get hit and rapier would be no different. You will just stick to baxe over head spam in the duel yard I guess.

Knight 107 137

Yeah... I would be more worried about the balance of weapons that continuously top the charts, like zweihander, halberd, eveningstar and maul, instead of a niche weapon like rapier.

40 52
  • 16 May
 cain

Rapier is certainly good against beginners. But once you get the hang of stab chambering, feints and timing, it's a joke unless the person using it knows what they're doing. A lot of people here seem to be saying that it can't be used for high level play - it can, it's just a tricky weapon to use in that circumstance. Other weapons lend themselves to high level play a lot better, but the rapier has its place.

A bit annoying in the early game? Sure. But there are plenty of weapons like that. Mauls, Zweihanders, Halberds, Eveningstars, Longbows, they're all major killers. In fact, for a weapon that constantly gets called "op" I barely ever see rapiers on the battlefield. Rapier is far from overpowered.

950 1582

US East is full of rapiers, 1vX often involves at least 1 rapier even on a map like Camp, which would seem a poor map for such a small weapon.

1 1
  • 24 May
 MagicMonkey

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Rapier is really fast. Rapier is really long. Rapier is really fast and long, I am amazed when people can react correctly to even 1 out of 3 feints/morphs or side stabs. It also flinches not only people's swings/combos but it also flinches parries which is prolly what's most dangerous. Someone spamming rapier will continuously flinch my parries and so other peoples attacks hit me too. And ofcourse, these players often hide behind a shield until it's time to flinch you while fighting multiple of their friends. 1 rapier poke = another free rapier poke and someone elses attack hitting you while in flinch.

Rapier might be an easy chamber but it will just keep spam chambering you, Day 1 players learned this fairly early on. They might eat a chamber morph BUT a day 3 rapier player has by now learned there stab will hit first if they circle to the opposite side of where ever your swing is coming from and buy some time.

Rapier may be too predictable and punishable at high level but it's just too powerful at low to moderate level play and it's really over powered in ganks, especially when paired with a shield. Rapier becomes more common in FL every day... when it should be a duel server only meme option.

We can do any combination of the following:

A: Remove rapier. It looks out of place and I don't think it's right that people are using a renaissance weapon en masse in a medieval game. And it's just too fast and do we really need norse sword in a post-chivalry medieval title? Can we like, move on?

B: Nerf it's range. So reduce stab release so it drags and has less reach and misses more AND reduce it's physical model length a tad. Yes actual rapiers are sometimes as long as longsword but please, we don't want to make long sword obsolete like it was in the time of the rapier.

C: Remove it's ability to flinch since this is what's most disastrous about it in team play. Also, its gambles are no longer rewarded with flinch. Yes, this the most oog boog caveman solution but good players can just parry after landing hits and honestly, I think it might be a fun weapon to play with or against if its flinch went.

Increasing point cost is pointless, it wouldn't change how cancer it is and it's not like anyone needs a side arm with it. Making it do less damage to armor would be nice but the real threat of rapier is the constant flinch it puts you in and less damage wouldn't change that. I would love to see it deleted, if guns aren't in the game why should rapier, which came after I'm pretty sure, be in the game? It just looks so out of place on the battle field, especially when everyone is using it.

But because someone spent time designing the model and what not, I doubt it will be deleted. So both C and B together might be a really nice option. This is a discussion so feel free to share how you really feel about rapier and shield users :) Don't hold back

Just remove that no brainer spam s ** t. I just kill the fun, and it's a no-sense to put that sort of thing in the game. All trolls are spamming rapier, and when it's not rapier it's fire-pots.

Knight 887 2440
  • 24 May
 Pred

I played some rounds with Rapier with parry button bound to stab instead (so I don't forget I'm not supposed to parry) and didn't miss much tbh.

You shouldn't have to be a seasoned veteran well-read in combat intricacies to be able to defend against a basic attack.

Knight 3232 6607
  • 1
  • 24 May
 Bodkin

I don't see how someone has to be a 1000+ hr veteran to know how to parry and riposte. Sounds more like a flaw in the tutorial to me. Should definitely be mandatory.

No joke 50% of players I see in a match wait until after block animation is over to attempt to swing back. Many of them didn't know you could combo either, and it's these people that don't know basic shit that will complain the most.

Knight 6544 11757

there was a rank 30 something in the duel server I admin a couple of days ago who didn't know what a combo was, what a riposte was, or what a chamber was

good times

Edit: also didn't know what drags are

Knight 3232 6607
  • 24 May
 Bodkin

@ToLazy4Name said:
duel server I admin

seinfeldsureaboutdat.jpg

Knight 6544 11757
  • 24 May
 ToLazy4Name

@Bodkin said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
duel server I admin

seinfeldsureaboutdat.jpg

Is it really so surprising that someone as libertarian as I am takes any sort of "power" seriously, despite my obnoxious personality? I'm a very good admin.

1658 1299
  • 24 May
 Rergato

Yes he might be too lazy for a name but he is not too lazy to admin

105 44
  • 24 May
 yvesgomes

If someone is literally spammimg stabs, and I chamber them, do their spamming result in them chambering my chamber?

35 13

Yes so if you're expecting them do that then you can morph your chamber.

105 44
  • 24 May
 yvesgomes

Is that usually fast enough to catch them before their second stab catches me (assuming I'm using a slow weapon)?

Knight 6544 11757
  • 24 May
 ToLazy4Name

@yvesgomes said:
Is that usually fast enough to catch them before their second stab catches me (assuming I'm using a slow weapon)?

You'll need to morph and accel very quickly if it's a rapier and you're using a slow weapon.

58 44
  • 24 May
 Cheto

All stab weapons have this problem not only rapier.

Knight 6544 11757
  • 24 May
 ToLazy4Name

@Cheto said:
All stab weapons have this problem not only rapier.

go away lmao

105 44
  • 24 May
 yvesgomes

Thanks, guys.