Mordhau

Nerf Cavalry!

1 0
  • 13 May
 micotu

@Daxxie said:
Imagine actually managing to hit a billhook against a charging horsemen, in 90% of my experiences I get staggered first or they hit me. Could just be my timing if off however and cavalry would be a lot worse if people actually picked up lances instead of running off on the horse with an arming sword or something similar.

I enjoy playing as cavalry and found out that my best chances at finding a horse is just taking the enemies. All you need to do is equip billhook and then head towards a chokepoint/ramp area the horse will likely go through to make its loop. try to keep yourself behind a bush or wall or something to where they can't really see you. You have to time your attack, but if they don't know you are there until you are already swinging, it's very easy to dismount them and then kill them. if I am unable to attack them on the ground due to obstacles/timing, i just hop on their horse and leave.

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Like many things in this game, Cavalry is easily countered by simply KNOWING they are coming. Horses can really only follow set routes if they want to keep their momentum, which makes them predictable, and therefore easy to deal with if you can properly predict their movement patterns (fairly easy). A single competent billhook user is able to effectively shut out an entire flank to a cavalryman if they are dedicated to countering them. Not to mention that blocking and chambering is straight up BROKEN whilst on horse-back; weapons will literally go through shields at times, and blocks/chambers that should connect don't for whatever reason. Horses can also be blocked with clever movement: you dont even necessarily need to corner the horse in order to get it to stop, just stand right in front of it and block it with your body (which is very frustrating, but has to exist in order to give infantry a chance against cavalry.) And even if all THAT fails, horses are VERY easy targets for archers; they are big and predictable, making it trivial to plink away at the horses' health with bows/throwables. Combine this with the fact horses cannot regenerate health, and you don't even necessarily have to fight the horse rider to take them down; just use attrition (surprisingly effective)
Of course, that's the primary issue here: competency. Most players in any given frontlines game are not going to be particularly good, or have much experience dealing with a competent cavalryman. But rather than try to learn about how they could counter this threat, or experiment with different weapons (billhook) to see what works best, they'd rather just complain about it on Reddit and the Forums, because certainly it's not their fault, it's the games' fault! How else could they be dying if they are trying the same strategy over and over fruitlessly?

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@charliebrown said:
Like many things in this game, Cavalry is easily countered by simply KNOWING they are coming. Horses can really only follow set routes if they want to keep their momentum, which makes them predictable

This is not true for the map Camp.Large parts of the map Camp are basically a wide open field where the cavalry can run around freely. Camp is also the only map which is large enough to be fitting for horse combat.Maybe parts of Grad too. But Maps like Taiga or Mountain Peak shouldnt have any horses at all, because they are mostly narrow corridors and chokepoints. You cant really maneuver around on that maps with a horse very well.

Im not really against horses in this game, they are very fun to use. My problem is more that the arrow speed of bows and projectiles is just to slow to combat horses effectivly and that the riders should fall of their horse, at least if they get headshot by projectiles.And the hitbox of the horse seems also too large so that it often pushes melee player who want to attack the horse away from the horse before they have a chance to land their swing. Thats what feels off to me.

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@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound

Making people fall off the horse will never implemented and people will rage if that happens. Adding speed to arrows is the only decent thing ... and a stun/stopping enemies from charging or swinging their weapons at you when hit by arrows.

I mean just by pure physics it would be impossible to just keep on going even when arrows hit shields the amount of force pushes back against the wielder ... but then again it is a game ... thus basic logic is not always applied.

No buffs to damage or any perks ... just those 2 fixes and viola ... but people would still whine making archers too OP for the casual player. Thus the "nerf" to balance against the "mob" players ... would be extra stamina costs for archer class in melee.

Problem solved ... seeing as it would be costly for archers to hit teammates now since they would also stun teammates mid swing.

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People think horse op and yet you will see 15 people walk past a horse and not get on. What about ballistas? what about catapults? Don't see you complaining about them and they one shot you from across the entire field.
Give me a break guys.

Knight 126 159

idk where all these complaints about horses come from.

The only time I've had real issues with horses is when I don't pay attention and I get blindsided.

The horses are hard to control and whenever they hit a wall they're a free target. Just avoid wide open areas when possible and pay attention.

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  • 13 May
 Anachoretes

This horses not even a horses. They stucking everywhere ... in the flagpoles, in a chairs, etc... and then you just dead. You can kill your horse by a wrong chop.

All you need, just a good players with pole weapons or Zwei or Spear to care about the cavalry.

It's not a good idea to nerf the game because of a bad players. They never be a good this way.

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@ResolutionBlaze said:
Just avoid wide open areas when possible and pay attention.

So avoid the entire map Camp and the spawn area and the first flapoint of the red team on Grad, got it! Good idea, i will play Taiga and Mountain Peak only from now on.

Yes this game glitches you into level geometry from time to time, but that happens not only on horses but also on foot. Horses are not really hard to controll. You dont need to run with them all the time, they also can go slower. Controlling them is only hard on the corridor and chokepoint maps, where they shouldnt be on anyways, like Taiga or Mountain Peak. If you get the ability to one tab people at a speed of 30 miles per hour and can phase through enemy groups as if they where ghosts without slowing down, then the least i can expect is that you at least put a little bit of effort in maneuvering around the map.

I think most of you: "I had never a problem with horses in this game" people are people which ride around the whole round on horses themself. But if arrows would actually travel faster then horses do,then i had also no problem with horses either.

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@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound said:
But if arrows would actually travel faster then horses do,then i had also no problem with horses either.
>

Ballista do.

Knight 126 159

@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound said:

@ResolutionBlaze said:
Just avoid wide open areas when possible and pay attention.

So avoid the entire map Camp and the spawn area and the first flapoint of the red team on Grad, got it! Good idea, i will play Taiga and Mountain Peak only from now on.

Yes this game glitches you into level geometry from time to time, but that happens not only on horses but also on foot. Horses are not really hard to controll. You dont need to run with them all the time, they also can go slower. Controlling them is only hard on the corridor and chokepoint maps, where they shouldnt be on anyways, like Taiga or Mountain Peak. If you get the ability to one tab people at a speed of 30 miles per hour and can phase through enemy groups as if they where ghosts without slowing down, then the least i can expect is that you at least put a little bit of effort in maneuvering around the map.

I think most of you: "I had never a problem with horses in this game" people are people which ride around the whole round on horses themself. But if arrows would actually travel faster then horses do,then i had also no problem with horses either.

Getting on a horse is actually a pain in the ass and a blessing if I ever get on one. I've played on a Horse thrice during my whole 30 hours of playtime.

And yes there are plenty of spaces. The only real spot that's dangerous is the space between Iron Company Camp and The River.

The area beside the river is riddled with random archer walls and constructs that act like a forest that one can easily take cover behind. Everything beyond that is fairly narrow or hardly traversed by the players.

So yeah, its not that bad.

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@Anachoretes said:

@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound said:
But if arrows would actually travel faster then horses do,then i had also no problem with horses either.
>

Ballista do.

I dont like using the ballista, its kind of boring to camp on a statonary turret, i rather like to move around on the map.

I mean its not that i never killed a horse in this game. If they really annoy me in one round and i concentrate all my focus on them then i get quiet consistend in bringing them down.But it takes so long to deal with them, at least if you want to play as archer.It takes so much time and all this time is spend just to deal with one dude who wants to bloat his k/d while using an op gadget all round long.Time which would be spend better elsewise by sniping some noobs.And if you finally killed them they just respawn and go the next horse and come back in no time. So you have to deal the entire round with them. I dont want to focus the entire round only on one dude with a horse, thats boring. But you have to if they keep coming back so fast. Most of those hoserider are not even good, they just ride around in the enemy spawn spawnkilling the other team from behind when they spawn into the map.

Its just that there is no fast way to bring them down, if you play archer.

They tank so many shots with the arrow before they go down. If the horseride knows at least halfways what he is doing then targeting the horserider is kind of useless, because even if you manage to land one or two hits on them, they just ride away from you into distance and then recover there and then combe back with full health. Sure two headshots would kill them, but with arrows traveling that slow and making the longbow aimready taking 1.2 seconds each ads alone, no chance that you get 2 headshots while they ride at you.At least not consistend.

And targeting the horse deals so little damage if they wear plating.

Thats why i think one headshot should knock them off the horse. The horserider on the other side could get a perk which lets him stand up more quickly after a knockdown, i would be fine with that. I dont want an easy kill while they are on the ground. But i want a fast way to deal with them as archer, when i have the skill to aim at their head.

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  • 14 May
 Pariah

@Anachoretes said:
It's not a good idea to nerf the game because of a bad players. They never be a good this way.

This guy gets it.

If cavalry bothers you that much, run an anti-cav loadout or put some effort into learning how to counter it with whatever weapons you enjoy the most. Take it upon yourself to get better before trying to push for wholesale changes with game mechanics.

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  • 14 May
 Zherot

@blankc35fd07d35d64832 said:
@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound

Making people fall off the horse will never implemented and people will rage if that happens. Adding speed to arrows is the only decent thing ... and a stun/stopping enemies from charging or swinging their weapons at you when hit by arrows.

I mean just by pure physics it would be impossible to just keep on going even when arrows hit shields the amount of force pushes back against the wielder ... but then again it is a game ... thus basic logic is not always applied.

No buffs to damage or any perks ... just those 2 fixes and viola ... but people would still whine making archers too OP for the casual player. Thus the "nerf" to balance against the "mob" players ... would be extra stamina costs for archer class in melee.

Problem solved ... seeing as it would be costly for archers to hit teammates now since they would also stun teammates mid swing.

What se are seeing is litteraly the imbalance of the ecosystem, Archers logically are the counters to this playstyle, but since Archers are overnerfed cavalry dominantes... Their predator is trash.

162 104

@Pariah said:

@Anachoretes said:
It's not a good idea to nerf the game because of a bad players. They never be a good this way.

This guy gets it.

If cavalry bothers you that much, run an anti-cav loadout or put some effort into learning how to counter it with whatever weapons you enjoy the most. Take it upon yourself to get better before trying to push for wholesale changes with game mechanics.

Its also never a good idea to leave op gadgets like shields and horses untouched and unpatched, orelse those bad player play only with those easy to use gadgets like shield-spear builds or riding around the whole round with a horse and doing nothing else. And then those bad player never learn important gamemechanics like feinting and chambering. Dont act as if the people complaing over slow arrow speed are the same people who complain over feints and chambers, because they are mostly not. Im not at least. I love to use feints and chambers in this game.

Why should someone else picking horses dictate my class selection? What if i dont want to play billhook only? Shouldnt the archer class be good at killing horses? Shouldnt arrows travel way faster then horses can ride?

I was never one of the player who advocates for patching important gamemechanics like feint out of the game.

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  • 14 May
 Pariah

@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound said:
Why should someone else picking horses dictate my class selection? What if i dont want to play billhook only? Shouldnt the archer class be good at killing horses? Shouldnt arrows travel way faster then horses can ride?

@Pariah said:
Put some effort into learning how to counter it with whatever weapons you enjoy the most. Take it upon yourself to get better before trying to push for wholesale changes with game mechanics.

You missed a spot.

Knight 126 159

Maybe if people took more than swords to the battlefield we would counter more often.

I actually think we should have more horses.

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@Pariah said:

@BudSpencer_vs_TheHound said:
Why should someone else picking horses dictate my class selection? What if i dont want to play billhook only? Shouldnt the archer class be good at killing horses? Shouldnt arrows travel way faster then horses can ride?

@Pariah said:
Put some effort into learning how to counter it with whatever weapons you enjoy the most. Take it upon yourself to get better before trying to push for wholesale changes with game mechanics.

You missed a spot.

I said i can kill them consistenly with the bow if i concentrate on them. But it takes to long. It takes to much time dealing with them, the way it is now. And even if you kill them they respawn and come back in no time, so that i had to deal the whole round with one dude on a horse, because he is triggered of me killing him on his horse so he is camping the horsespawn area and lets no one else of his team ride the horse, just to come back to me over and over again to revenge his dead. Thats what happens if you kill them, they usualy get triggered and ride at you again and again. Even if you kill them multiple times, they keep coming back to you. And that means having to deal the whole round just with one dude. Thats not fun.

Either you never played as archer in this game or you just dont care. Again if you dont belive me then ask other archer player. The matchup horserider with spear vs archer is just stupid to play as archer because they gimped the arrow speed of the archer class so much, so that all the melee only player do not freak out to much about archer. You can kill horses as archer only fast if the hoserider is a complete noob, which some of them are.

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Horses is not OP. Shields is not OP. They need a tweaks? Maybe or definitely...like everything in this game. Horses is not easy to use. I met only 2-3 players 2-3 times whoes played Extremely good on the horses. I can do 20+ kills on the horses in round but only after a 60+ hours of playing this game. You should learn tons of a routes on each map, you should learn timings and directions for all weapons, 3 type of horses, how to turn your horse and where, how to avoid halberds, spears and bla bla, you should learn target priorities and maybe even more. And each mistake usually is killing you instantly.

Archers are pretty good against the horsemans. But you should learn at least half from list above.I'm not sure that in reality it's pretty easy to hit a galloping target from a traditional bow. But good focus from a good position do the job.

Seriously, just standing close to objects giving you a best defense against horses. It's like crying against a battletanks in Battlefield series. Cavalary is a part of Combined arms and ofc it's stronger than an infantry... and very limited.

Ok we standing in the middle of 2019 where players is so fk lost. They whine and insist that the game should adapt to them, and not vice versa. It's a shame.
I remember a time when it was impossible to write to anyone. You got the game, you went through 6 stages of adoption, and then solved the problem - passed the game. Today, after the first difficulties, many of the players immediately run to the forums. They pray to the gods to stop the rain. The worst thing is that the useful feedback is lost under this layer and has been discredited long ago.

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@Anachoretes said:

Archers are pretty good against the horsemans.
Ok we standing in the middle of 2019 where players is so fk lost. They whine and insist that the game should adapt to them, and not vice versa. It's a shame.

You know what is also a shame? That they had to gimp arrows for this game so much that you cant even consistently hit enemy player on a 30-40 meter range, if they only slightly move. I dont care how often i have to repeat my lines, but again tell me one other multiplayer game with bows, where arrows travel that slow, just one?

I think it is justified to complain about something , when it is implemented weaker then in any other multiplayer game. Its also not really a "git good" thing. Because hitting arrows at 30-40 meter is pure random if the enemies move anyway else then in a straight line. You can get as good as you want, it doesnt matter if the mechanic is luck based. Good luck trying to get good playing roulette in a casino.

Sure you can get better at hitting people who are standing still and sniping people from 10-15 meter, even if they move. But no chance of hitting someone at 40 meter if he moves chaotically in this game.

If horses move with supersonic speed and phase through groups of enemies without getting slower and my arrows on the other side look as if they would have been recorded with a 10.000 frame slow motion camera, then i think complaining about that is justified.Giving feedback is always complaining anyways.