Mordhau

Shield Rebalance

109 165
  • 1
  • 10 May
 Speak

But @Schwarzchild , janat08's post literally reads "you hit him with the tip of weapon that is behind the shield," so I'm pretty sure he's talking about having the shaft/blade of your weapon going straight through their shield, and hitting with the tip (by aiming elsewhere and then dragging it behind the shield once it's past the shield).

At least, can't you do that with stabs? I was pretty sure I saw someone saying that was possible, although now I'm not sure since I thought pretty much the whole weapon was an active hitbox such that your weapon would bounce off the shield if you tried to just drag the tip behind the shield (unless during stabs it's just the tip, in which case that kind of janky-ass exploitation would be possible).

edit: Although I guess there's a separate issue if the whole blade is a hitbox when stabbing: You can do stab timing mixups by stabbing elsewhere and then just kind of sliding the side of the weapon into the enemy slowly to kinda whack them with it, which registers as a late stab, which is weird. If true. I mean, you can already delay stabs by dragging in some way that I don't entirely understand, but as long as it's just the tip that's the hitbox, you at least have to hit them with the tip.

But the rest of the weapon should count as "hitbox" for the purposes of not being able to noclip your weapon through a shield. Assuming I'm understanding all these explanations correctly. This game really needs some official mechanics explanation guides i swear

162 124

@Speak said:
But @Schwarzchild , janat08's post literally reads "you hit him with the tip of weapon that is behind the shield," so I'm pretty sure he's talking about having the shaft/blade of your weapon going straight through their shield, and hitting with the tip (by aiming elsewhere and then dragging it behind the shield once it's past the shield).

At least, can't you do that with stabs? I was pretty sure I saw someone saying that was possible, although now I'm not sure since I thought pretty much the whole weapon was an active hitbox such that your weapon would bounce off the shield if you tried to just drag the tip behind the shield (unless during stabs it's just the tip, in which case that kind of janky-ass exploitation would be possible).

you do footwork so the shaft doesn't hit the shield (because the entire weapon is a hitbox), your literally curving the attack so that the tip hits the sides, like moving to the side of the shield while stabbing

-but this is rendered useless to good shield users that can track the tip of the weapon

162 124

edit: Although I guess there's a separate issue if the whole blade is a hitbox when stabbing: You can do stab timing mixups by stabbing elsewhere and then just kind of sliding the side of the weapon into the enemy slowly to kinda whack them with it, which registers as a late stab, which is weird. If true. I mean, you can already delay stabs by dragging in some way that I don't entirely understand, but as long as it's just the tip that's the hitbox, you at least have to hit them with the tip.

But the rest of the weapon should count as "hitbox" for the purposes of not being able to noclip your weapon through a shield. Assuming I'm understanding all these explanations correctly. This game really needs some official mechanics explanation guides i swear

Yeah Basicly swing manipulation, there's many ways to drag stabs at high-level like a wind mill, z stabs,etc but all of those boil down to delays.

You can't really whack them with a stab because of the nerfed to hell release of the stab so yeah but this was actually good against shield users during alpha patch 11

162 124

Simple stab drag

Here's a windmill

Here's an example by Hadeus guide
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640297858

I don't have a gif for z stabs but just as I explained you move to the side except you draw a z with the stab to confuse the enemy from parrying from the opposite side

1092 1724

Locational deceptions are the most intuitive way to beat a shield... and to defend with a shield. Leg armor is so strong, no one has the right to complain about falling for leg hits with a shield that's heater sized. Even naked legs are 2htk from most 2h and at least 3htk from most 1h.

Fall for leg hits? Wear leg armor. Fall for alot of side stabs? Wear Chest armor. Always getting face stabbed? Wear a helmet. I loved making my shield load out around what I got hit by the most in patch 14/15. With heater I usually went 3/2/2, sometimes 3/1/2. If I used a kite shield I would go 2/2/3.

Armor selections mattered alot more for shields back then. You need to go as light as possible to increase the range of a 1h and decrease the chances of getting kicked. But you needed armor to at least make you 2htk in places you often fell for tricks at.

Right now T3 shields just get surrounded and kicked in while light armor shields with rapier/short spear cant be kicked or surrounded very well and stab from out of some 2h range due to movement speed.

7 15
  • 3
  • 12 May
 MedLit

It's not about beating shields so much as balancing them in a way so that shield users are forced to read things more often instead of encouraging bad habits like backpedaling and only counter-attacking once your shield is hit. I am not debating that it is impossible to beat someone with a shield, I am debating that there are annoying strategies that make them a worse player for relying on them, and that they can drag out fights if they're semi-competent. With a short spear or rapier and some experience, they can be tiresome to deal with. You put in more work than they are required to, which is maddening if they have any support whatsoever. If you have to do tricky stabs or deceptive drags while they simply riposte with a dumb stab spam or back away to bait you into lame kicks, it's a problem.

If they back up slower, they cannot evade the kick and must read the kick in order to counter it or lower their shield to get some distance and attack.

If they lose stamina from maintaining the shield block for inordinate amounts of time, they will need to lower their shield to conserve stamina and thus give opponents more chances to fight back against them
or consider other options.

Even a lightly armored shield user would be made to be more considerate of what their enemy is doing. 1/1/1 with rapier, spear, whatever.

777 1029

I think shields are broken so bad players can still play the game

53 8
  • 12 May
 janat08

I don't think they can riposte unless they actually restart blocking.

1092 1724

@MedLit said:
It's not about beating shields so much as balancing them in a way so that shield users are forced to read things more often instead of encouraging bad habits like backpedaling and only counter-attacking once your shield is hit. I am not debating that it is impossible to beat someone with a shield, I am debating that there are annoying strategies that make them a worse player for relying on them, and that they can drag out fights if they're semi-competent. With a short spear or rapier and some experience, they can be tiresome to deal with. You put in more work than they are required to, which is maddening if they have any support whatsoever. If you have to do tricky stabs or deceptive drags while they simply riposte with a dumb stab spam or back away to bait you into lame kicks, it's a problem.

If they back up slower, they cannot evade the kick and must read the kick in order to counter it or lower their shield to get some distance and attack.

If they lose stamina from maintaining the shield block for inordinate amounts of time, they will need to lower their shield to conserve stamina and thus give opponents more chances to fight back against them
or consider other options.

Even a lightly armored shield user would be made to be more considerate of what their enemy is doing. 1/1/1 with rapier, spear, whatever.

Yes we must balance shields, not nerf them into the ground... Afterall a shield must feel like a direct upgrade to a 1 handed weapon so as to put it on par with 2 handed weapons. But it must still require reading to use one... It's no coincidence every one is running around with rapier and short spear, kite or heater and NO ONE uses buckler or targe.

They must be balanced for all things: duels, XvX and 1vX. Right now, with kick and stamina being the only way to reliably break them, they're effectively unstoppable in XvX and ganks, useless in 1vX but they're well balanced at high level duels but totally unfair in low level duels. Shield effectiveness is currently load out vs load out and ganks instead of skill vs skill.

There must be leg hits. There HAS to be leg hits.

Shield users having to read between leg hits and side hits and face stabs was when shields were truly balanced at everything and ultimately, their effectiveness came down to the skill of the user. Back then, heater and kite shield was a direct upgrade to 1h and was really good at 1vX. With a shield right now, it's useless in 1vX because youre getting kicked while spam poked and you're already at a stamina disadvantage. Nerfing shield parry size but removing kick is not a shield nerf... It's a shield buff because it opens the door to high level play and shield becomes a tool instead of a handicap... There's a reason only week 1 players use shield while any one good uses LS or bigger. To a good player, shields this patch are just a handicap

But because shields are so hard and time consuming to get around, noobs stand no chance to defeat them and having a single shield along with 2h while ganking is pretty op and these shield users will not die.

These players using shield are not learning to play the game. These players do not use targe and no one is using buckler: there's also a reason these players use rapier/short spear. They rake in free hits and rake in free blocks from people that aren't even in their screen. They're using the laziest load outs and other week 1 players stand no chance of beating them even when they're better. We must make shields require reading.

Reading a kick is not reading... if it's the only way to "get a free hit" then reading it is actually just prediction, almost gambling... So kicking is about doing something ugly to make a shield user block and you'll need something fast to do this against moderately skilled players... This makes slow weapons useless against shields while making shields useless with heavy armor or against fast weapons. Buffing kick is so obviously the wrong way and kick is already too powerful against 1h offense... These rapier/short spear guys might get kicked more, but their rapier will still win no matter how big your caveman kick gets... but anyone using arming sword, axe or mace will get kicked both on offense and defense...

BUFFING KICK DOESNT NERF SHIELDS, IT NERFS ONE HANDERS Shield then isn't an upgrade but just more of a handicap

AND MAKES RAPIER AND SHORT SPEAR THE ONLY VIABLE OPTIONS WITH SHIELD

I really think game balance is controlled by a baboon caveman who mains messer and cleaver.

777 1029

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I really think game balance is controlled by a baboon caveman who mains messer and cleaver.

I really believe shields are broken on purpose so players with bad reactions and no skill, and no interest in gaining it, will still be able to play the game despite these personal drawbacks, which would otherwise render them fodder.

I suspect the devs know what is "wrong" with shields and generally how to fix them, they just don't want to yet...

523 566
  • 1
  • 12 May
 Deadmode

From what I heard on a stream (Giru iirc) he said that, in alpha, the shields had an exact hitbox. This meant that in order to block an attack the user had to pretty much look right at the incoming attack, with tolerances for the varying shields sizes, ofc.

This worked okay(ish) for duels but when a shield user was in a 1vX situation the shield was utterly useless because you could only really block one incoming attack as they were so easy to get around. The shield block area was increased to balance it across all game modes to make them actually viable to use.

Now...

For people complaining about using kick as a strategy against them and calling for a kick buff - you clearly don't know how to kick properly. You don't just press F and hope that they won't backpedal or stab you before it connects. You need to hide the kick. If the shield user sees an incoming attack, he will keep his shield up (or raise it), at which point you morph to a kick. Simple. The only time this misses is if you start your morph from too fair away, you need to be up in their grill.

For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can. You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers. You can quickly sidestep a stab around their flanks and also use swings against poorer-skilled shield users. You'll have a better time if you attack their weapon side too, as it's easier to get around. You CAN hit the legs too.

The other important thing is to PRESS them hard and keep the initiative. If a shield users has to keep that shield up, no matter what attacks you are using, they WILL drop it before you run out of stamina. Only if you give them chances to attack you back and cause YOU stam drain, will you stand a chance of losing the stam game.

About an earlier comment about Shield + Rapier/spear being the meta - it's really not. Watch any pro/comp game and you won't see those used at all, because they are easily defeated and shields actually serious hamper the user, especially with visibility and stamina drain potential.

I absolutely HATE to say it, but in order to fight shields you actually need to think, choose your attacks and timings properly and fight them using your skill, not hoping for a mechanic to be changed/added making it easier for you. Shields are designed to be harder to get around than not having one (hence their existence), you just need to learn to git gud and beat them.

Why not hop on a server with some buddies and practice this shit if you really want to improve?

7 12
  • 2
  • 12 May
 HappyDust
  Nerf shields? thats insane, they already bad in duels, on frontline -yes they buyng too much time for the team on point capture. Dont change shields, better change weapon what people use with shields. My opinion stabs is way too hard to chamber against spear and rapier for most part players. Everyone know spears and rapiers can be countered by chambering, but timing is too dificult a specaly for a spear its nerly imposibly to doo right.
  I suggest-make chambering proncess more frendly for players or let us counter shields with firebomb. Buff kicks is not the way this will create new meta of kicking spam, kicks is fine in a way they are.

p.s. ofc i talk about teamfights, in 1v1 situation shields sucks and get rekt by any 2h.

Knight 925 2541
  • 12 May
 Pred

@Deadmode said:
For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can.

https://streamable.com/9d0ze

@Deadmode said:
You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers.

https://streamable.com/wsnke

1092 1724

@Deadmode said:
From what I heard on a stream (Giru iirc) he said that, in alpha, the shields had an exact hitbox. This meant that in order to block an attack the user had to pretty much look right at the incoming attack, with tolerances for the varying shields sizes, ofc.

This worked okay(ish) for duels but when a shield user was in a 1vX situation the shield was utterly useless because you could only really block one incoming attack as they were so easy to get around. The shield block area was increased to balance it across all game modes to make them actually viable to use.

Now...

For people complaining about using kick as a strategy against them and calling for a kick buff - you clearly don't know how to kick properly. You don't just press F and hope that they won't backpedal or stab you before it connects. You need to hide the kick. If the shield user sees an incoming attack, he will keep his shield up (or raise it), at which point you morph to a kick. Simple. The only time this misses is if you start your morph from too fair away, you need to be up in their grill.

For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can. You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers. You can quickly sidestep a stab around their flanks and also use swings against poorer-skilled shield users. You'll have a better time if you attack their weapon side too, as it's easier to get around. You CAN hit the legs too.

The other important thing is to PRESS them hard and keep the initiative. If a shield users has to keep that shield up, no matter what attacks you are using, they WILL drop it before you run out of stamina. Only if you give them chances to attack you back and cause YOU stam drain, will you stand a chance of losing the stam game.

About an earlier comment about Shield + Rapier/spear being the meta - it's really not. Watch any pro/comp game and you won't see those used at all, because they are easily defeated and shields actually serious hamper the user, especially with visibility and stamina drain potential.

I absolutely HATE to say it, but in order to fight shields you actually need to think, choose your attacks and timings properly and fight them using your skill, not hoping for a mechanic to be changed/added making it easier for you. Shields are designed to be harder to get around than not having one (hence their existence), you just need to learn to git gud and beat them.

Why not hop on a server with some buddies and practice this shit if you really want to improve?

As someone who loved to use shields before this invincible force field, magical caveman kick stuff...

Shield WAS NEVER better for 1vX than in Patch 14/15 where shield models were accurate. Of course hits get past when you have to look at one opponent over another... it's the same way now with both shields and normal parry. But with infinitely held block you can double block as they come and time your riposte AND

BEST PART

GET READY FOR THIS you prolly wont be impressed actually

The best part was you choose where you put your armor. This means you choose which attack to block... and which one to let hit your armored portion while you block whatever is going for your weakest points. I am not going to expose my face to protect my legs when choosing between an LS leg hit or Baxe face shot. Yeah it sounds barbaric saying you choose which to block and the other definately hits you but it's actually better than what you go through with normal parry... Shield did not drop on hit, so if you got side stabbed it stayed up and blocked the other attack aimed at your face. THIS was it's advantage over regular parry along with held block

With regular parry you have two attacks with different timings from different angles. You have to decide which one will hit first and block where they're going. Parry does not stay up on hit, so if the one hits first before you parry the other, both attacks hit you while you're in flinch. And you just got hit twice and now one opponent is behind you and the other is in front of you... you're prolly dead. With shield and 1h speed you can fight your way out and take only 1 hit if you read at least one of those first attacks (regardless of which one hits first.)

Also, shields did well in this point because most people just spammed the shield and didn't bother aiming around it (and this was in alpha, where the players there were hundreds of times better than FL noobs) so shield still blocked most oncoming attacks while the guy who does aim around it, instead of gorrilla spamming got rewarded. Win/Win for everyone actually because shield blocks most attacks even in a bad players hands, a smart person could hit around the shield and the shield stayed up still keeping the shielder safe from the ape overhead spam.

Shield was a direct upgrade from normal 1h parry when fighting 1vX, XvX and duels but ultimately depended on the skill level of the user at high level. Its only fair that if you dont have to worry about timing your parry you have to worry about where you parry.

777 1029

@Deadmode said:
From what I heard on a stream (Giru iirc) he said that, in alpha, the shields had an exact hitbox. This meant that in order to block an attack the user had to pretty much look right at the incoming attack, with tolerances for the varying shields sizes, ofc.

This worked okay(ish) for duels but when a shield user was in a 1vX situation the shield was utterly useless because you could only really block one incoming attack as they were so easy to get around. The shield block area was increased to balance it across all game modes to make them actually viable to use.

Now...

For people complaining about using kick as a strategy against them and calling for a kick buff - you clearly don't know how to kick properly. You don't just press F and hope that they won't backpedal or stab you before it connects. You need to hide the kick. If the shield user sees an incoming attack, he will keep his shield up (or raise it), at which point you morph to a kick. Simple. The only time this misses is if you start your morph from too fair away, you need to be up in their grill.

For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can. You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers. You can quickly sidestep a stab around their flanks and also use swings against poorer-skilled shield users. You'll have a better time if you attack their weapon side too, as it's easier to get around. You CAN hit the legs too.

The other important thing is to PRESS them hard and keep the initiative. If a shield users has to keep that shield up, no matter what attacks you are using, they WILL drop it before you run out of stamina. Only if you give them chances to attack you back and cause YOU stam drain, will you stand a chance of losing the stam game.

About an earlier comment about Shield + Rapier/spear being the meta - it's really not. Watch any pro/comp game and you won't see those used at all, because they are easily defeated and shields actually serious hamper the user, especially with visibility and stamina drain potential.

I absolutely HATE to say it, but in order to fight shields you actually need to think, choose your attacks and timings properly and fight them using your skill, not hoping for a mechanic to be changed/added making it easier for you. Shields are designed to be harder to get around than not having one (hence their existence), you just need to learn to git gud and beat them.

Why not hop on a server with some buddies and practice this shit if you really want to improve?

Before you think about posting such wrong opinions ever again, you should duel me. See if you can kill me even once... see if you hold the same wrong opinions after.

523 566
  • 1
  • 12 May
 Deadmode

@Pred said:

@Deadmode said:
For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can.

https://streamable.com/9d0ze

@Deadmode said:
You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers.

https://streamable.com/wsnke

Both cases of desync (In fact, the second clip is still attacking his front...). They are not facing the direction your client shows, so they are actually already blocking those attacks. I don't have clips to counter you with, I just know what I've done and what I've seen and had the implementation of the shield as-is explained to know that you can hit around and above it.

523 566
  • 1
  • 12 May
 Deadmode

@smellycathawk said:

@Deadmode said:
From what I heard on a stream (Giru iirc) he said that, in alpha, the shields had an exact hitbox. This meant that in order to block an attack the user had to pretty much look right at the incoming attack, with tolerances for the varying shields sizes, ofc.

This worked okay(ish) for duels but when a shield user was in a 1vX situation the shield was utterly useless because you could only really block one incoming attack as they were so easy to get around. The shield block area was increased to balance it across all game modes to make them actually viable to use.

Now...

For people complaining about using kick as a strategy against them and calling for a kick buff - you clearly don't know how to kick properly. You don't just press F and hope that they won't backpedal or stab you before it connects. You need to hide the kick. If the shield user sees an incoming attack, he will keep his shield up (or raise it), at which point you morph to a kick. Simple. The only time this misses is if you start your morph from too fair away, you need to be up in their grill.

For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can. You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers. You can quickly sidestep a stab around their flanks and also use swings against poorer-skilled shield users. You'll have a better time if you attack their weapon side too, as it's easier to get around. You CAN hit the legs too.

The other important thing is to PRESS them hard and keep the initiative. If a shield users has to keep that shield up, no matter what attacks you are using, they WILL drop it before you run out of stamina. Only if you give them chances to attack you back and cause YOU stam drain, will you stand a chance of losing the stam game.

About an earlier comment about Shield + Rapier/spear being the meta - it's really not. Watch any pro/comp game and you won't see those used at all, because they are easily defeated and shields actually serious hamper the user, especially with visibility and stamina drain potential.

I absolutely HATE to say it, but in order to fight shields you actually need to think, choose your attacks and timings properly and fight them using your skill, not hoping for a mechanic to be changed/added making it easier for you. Shields are designed to be harder to get around than not having one (hence their existence), you just need to learn to git gud and beat them.

Why not hop on a server with some buddies and practice this shit if you really want to improve?

Before you think about posting such wrong opinions ever again, you should duel me. See if you can kill me even once... see if you hold the same wrong opinions after.

This is hilarious. Nice flexing.

I never said, "I beat all shield players." I just stated that you can get attacks around them and kick them if you play right.

I'm sure a skilled shield user would be EVEN harder to beat, no doubt. You're comparing a skilled player making it impossible to get an attack past his shield as opposed to the game making it impossible to get an attack past, both totally different things.

I also don't see any evidence in your post that what I said is incorrect...

523 566
  • 12 May
 Deadmode

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Deadmode said:
From what I heard on a stream (Giru iirc) he said that, in alpha, the shields had an exact hitbox. This meant that in order to block an attack the user had to pretty much look right at the incoming attack, with tolerances for the varying shields sizes, ofc.

This worked okay(ish) for duels but when a shield user was in a 1vX situation the shield was utterly useless because you could only really block one incoming attack as they were so easy to get around. The shield block area was increased to balance it across all game modes to make them actually viable to use.

Now...

For people complaining about using kick as a strategy against them and calling for a kick buff - you clearly don't know how to kick properly. You don't just press F and hope that they won't backpedal or stab you before it connects. You need to hide the kick. If the shield user sees an incoming attack, he will keep his shield up (or raise it), at which point you morph to a kick. Simple. The only time this misses is if you start your morph from too fair away, you need to be up in their grill.

For people saying that you cannot hit around shields - you absolutely can. You can time overhead attacks with a jump to hit right over their shield and clout their heads/shoulers. You can quickly sidestep a stab around their flanks and also use swings against poorer-skilled shield users. You'll have a better time if you attack their weapon side too, as it's easier to get around. You CAN hit the legs too.

The other important thing is to PRESS them hard and keep the initiative. If a shield users has to keep that shield up, no matter what attacks you are using, they WILL drop it before you run out of stamina. Only if you give them chances to attack you back and cause YOU stam drain, will you stand a chance of losing the stam game.

About an earlier comment about Shield + Rapier/spear being the meta - it's really not. Watch any pro/comp game and you won't see those used at all, because they are easily defeated and shields actually serious hamper the user, especially with visibility and stamina drain potential.

I absolutely HATE to say it, but in order to fight shields you actually need to think, choose your attacks and timings properly and fight them using your skill, not hoping for a mechanic to be changed/added making it easier for you. Shields are designed to be harder to get around than not having one (hence their existence), you just need to learn to git gud and beat them.

Why not hop on a server with some buddies and practice this shit if you really want to improve?

As someone who loved to use shields before this invincible force field, magical caveman kick stuff...

Shield WAS NEVER better for 1vX than in Patch 14/15 where shield models were accurate. Of course hits get past when you have to look at one opponent over another... it's the same way now with both shields and normal parry. But with infinitely held block you can double block as they come and time your riposte AND

BEST PART

GET READY FOR THIS you prolly wont be impressed actually

The best part was you choose where you put your armor. This means you choose which attack to block... and which one to let hit your armored portion while you block whatever is going for your weakest points. I am not going to expose my face to protect my legs when choosing between an LS leg hit or Baxe face shot. Yeah it sounds barbaric saying you choose which to block and the other definately hits you but it's actually better than what you go through with normal parry... Shield did not drop on hit, so if you got side stabbed it stayed up and blocked the other attack aimed at your face. THIS was it's advantage over regular parry along with held block

With regular parry you have two attacks with different timings from different angles. You have to decide which one will hit first and block where they're going. Parry does not stay up on hit, so if the one hits first before you parry the other, both attacks hit you while you're in flinch. And you just got hit twice and now one opponent is behind you and the other is in front of you... you're prolly dead. With shield and 1h speed you can fight your way out and take only 1 hit if you read at least one of those first attacks (regardless of which one hits first.)

Also, shields did well in this point because most people just spammed the shield and didn't bother aiming around it (and this was in alpha, where the players there were hundreds of times better than FL noobs) so shield still blocked most oncoming attacks while the guy who does aim around it, instead of gorrilla spamming got rewarded. Win/Win for everyone actually because shield blocks most attacks even in a bad players hands, a smart person could hit around the shield and the shield stayed up still keeping the shielder safe from the ape overhead spam.

Shield was a direct upgrade from normal 1h parry when fighting 1vX, XvX and duels but ultimately depended on the skill level of the user at high level. Its only fair that if you dont have to worry about timing your parry you have to worry about where you parry.

Interesting post. As a new player myself I don't have experience with this era of the game but was merely repeating what I heard on-stream. The reason I mentioned it is because Someone earlier said that the hitbox should be reduced and so I wanted to draw attention to the fact that this has already been in existence and changed previously.

Good post though, thanks.

95 81
  • 12 May
 HalldeiMaul

To repeat essentially the gist of what's been happening spread across 6-7 shield threads I've been in so far:

Shields currently allow the user to swing and hit faster than you can muster a kick, backpedal faster than a kick, and should either of those not apply, simply counter-kick.
So much for "there's a counter even for shields".

Saying go around them when you have heavier armour is a bad joke, saying hit around them clearly is a troll by anyone who has ever seen the 360omgwtfbbq effects shields currently have (see also Deadmode's video links above https://mordhau.com/forum/comment/196095/find/ ).

I've explained elsewhere already that you could e.g. increase their raise/lower window considerably to help fix this, as well as buff the kick vs shields only, while debuffing theirs(basically like you only get a faster run in chase mode, you only get a better kick when looking at someone with a shield), as well as make stamina drain vastly more.
There used to be jumpkicks in Chiv, but I guess I'm the only one who was deeply in love with jumpkicking full plate ninja-knights. Cost a buttload of Stamina, but boy was it enjoyable.

Anyhow, I don't think you need all of these measures at once.
In my opinion simply making a shield's raise/lower window vastly longer would be the most fair and adequate fix. And if you don't like that as enabling hitpoint damaging hits, then simply make it so that if you hit a shield WHILE it is being raised or lowered in its new slowmotion mode, it is INSTANTLY tossed aside as if Stamina had expired.

The recovery window of missing with a slow weapon is like 500 times longer than what shields get to be raised, lowered, spam a 1h attack, even a 1h swing attack - and that's just not cool.