Mordhau

TKer's & Griefers - Solutions?

185 205
  • 7 May '19
 Roag

The number of people trolling/tking has already started to increase over the past few days and it will only get worse, a game like this is a haven for people who enjoy this kind of behaviour.

There needs to be a team damage tracker for players on the server (like Chivalry had) so people who are tking are easily identified and votekicked or reported.

Having moderators is all well and good, but I know from my own experience that it's often impossible to deal with rule-breaking happening in real time - you can't be everywhere at once. At current there's a woeful lack of player monitoring tools available, granted this wouldn't have been a priority pre-release however it should certainly be reviewed given the large playerbase at the moment.

The more tools you hand to the players to self moderate, the better.

Some suggestions:

  • Playerlist menu: Clear team damage % indicator for each player + option to votekick (saves using console, would also be helpful if you could copy SteamID/Link to profile)

  • Team damage warning for high % TD players (IE Red text on screen after X% TD) / Increased spawn time for high TD%

  • Chat filter, just for the really abhorrent stuff - saves chat moderation which is always a pain and often causes more issues than it solves.

  • Spawn protection, disable taking damage for X seconds after spawn.

3 0
  • 7 May '19
 Vedrafjordr

A good post, it certainly has become a problem for me over the last two days, it can truly ruin the experience unfortunately.

Knight 685 1852
  • 7 May '19
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Roag said:
The more tools you hand to the players to self moderate, the better.

Some suggestions:

  • Playerlist menu: Clear team damage % indicator for each player + option to votekick (saves using console, would also be helpful if you could copy SteamID/Link to profile)

  • Team damage warning for high % TD players (IE Red text on screen after X% TD) / Increased spawn time for high TD%

They also need to avoid doing the same mistakes chivalry did. You could easily boot someone out of a server by blocking a door and getting him to kick you for 3 damage at the start of the round, which would display as 100% team damage. A very easy bandaid solution imo would be to have everyone start at 100 enemy damage 0 team damage when the game starts.

  • Chat filter, just for the really abhorrent stuff - saves chat moderation which is always a pain and often causes more issues than it solves.

They have this covered afaik. A clientside chat filter is being worked on.

  • Spawn protection, disable taking damage for X seconds after spawn.

Already in game. If you get attacked in the first few seconds after spawning you take minimal damage.

185 205
  • 4
  • 7 May '19
 Roag

Couple of times when spawning on mountain peak as red (I think? was in a cave) I found myself on fire as soon as I spawned and lost a good chunk of HP (team mate fire-potting spawn). Spawn protection should be a bit more extensive imo.

Regarding the TD indicator taking early game damage into account, this is a good point. I was a chivalry mod and, as anyone who played Chivalry knows, people often got votekicked as soon as the game started as they had 100% TD (which I would cancel). Another solution to this would be to simply disable votekicks for the first X minutes of a round - shouldn't really be any need to kick people so early on.

1 0

Good post. Was actually looking at the forum to see where I could report these rulebreakers, such as Neckbreaker who intentionally teamkilled me three times in the last minutes.

Another thing that could easily be implemented is an autoban. I am an administrator on the module Mercenaries, from Mount & Blade Warband. People who repetetively teamhit will get an automatical verbal warning. If they keep doing so, they eventually get autobannned for 20 minutes. This works great for real trolls. It however does not work for people who just revenge teamhit once or manage to teamhit a couple of times, wait about 10 min untill the warning period has ended and than doing the same thing over again.

Knight 685 1852
  • 7 May '19
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Roag said:
Couple of times when spawning on mountain peak as red (I think? was in a cave) I found myself on fire as soon as I spawned and lost a good chunk of HP (team mate fire-potting spawn). Spawn protection should be a bit more extensive imo.

What happens here I think is that during the zoom in effect in frontline you're already physically spawned in. So by the time you get to control your character, the protection wears off.

Regarding the TD indicator taking early game damage into account, this is a good point. I was a chivalry mod and, as anyone who played Chivalry knows, people often got votekicked as soon as the game started as they had 10% TD (which I would cancel). Another solution to this would be to simply disable votekicks for the first X minutes of a round - shouldn't really be any need to kick people so early on.

On grad if you're quick enough you can spawntrap your entire team at the very start of the round. Votekick needs to be available a all times.

185 205
  • 1
  • 7 May '19
 Roag

@ÐMontyleGueux said:

@Roag said:
Couple of times when spawning on mountain peak as red (I think? was in a cave) I found myself on fire as soon as I spawned and lost a good chunk of HP (team mate fire-potting spawn). Spawn protection should be a bit more extensive imo.

What happens here I think is that during the zoom in effect in frontline you're already physically spawned in. So by the time you get to control your character, the protection wears off.

Yeh exactly, you're clearly alive for a few secs before actually being able to control your character - another reason why spawn protection should be more extensive.

Obviously these are all suggestions and open to change regarding implementation - I just hope the devs get round to these sooner rather than later, with whatever approach they feel is best.

95 81
  • 7 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

tl;dr: In my opinion automated kicking of people with team damage past a threshold of e.g. 50% should be a first step and banning people not just from one but all official servers for more days each time they incur a penalty should be a real threat to griefers and trolls.

--

I have seen the old chivalry griefpatrol creep in the last 2 days as well.
In my opinion, and what has been proven to work in Chivalry already, votekicks must include displaying the team damage caused by the person put up for the votekick.

Then: Best I know, votekicks are currently limited to one server.
I suspect that thanks to the magic of steam, we could actually make it so that someone who averages a teamdamage value of amount x over a set amount of time actually gets locked out of playing on official servers. Say first a 48 hour lockout, then on repeat offense 72 hours, then a week, and if they keep up playing only to cause team damage, say over 50% (normal players tend to stay in single digits, over 20% usually is intentional misbehavior), for a period of over a month, then you flag their account for review and potentially lock them out for good.

Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of multiplayer games being playgrounds for griefers, and hundreds and hundreds of hours in Chivalry have shown to me that self-policing people does not work very well, because it was limited to one server and the lockout expires within the same day.

What the community needs in my opinion is finally real, severe and really consequential policing of bad behavior, so that people who do this as their sole intent get weeded out. I have seen people literally buy games together with their "friends" solely to go into games as a group, grief and teamkill, then back each other up with lies how it was the guy they are teamkilling and not their fault, and then proceed to kickvote out the person they abused, while they stayed around.
This is inacceptable.
This is also something that you cannot fix unless you either automate team damage kicking or have someone do actual dedicated server overview/policing.

I don't know why this issue is not being taken more serious and why the TD percentage that was shown in Chiv wasn't included from day 1 in Mordhau as well. But having griefers and trolls around is something that can completely ruin gameplay and the community, which is why I don't think this should be taken lightly at all.

As for spawn protection, I am all for it, because already cavalry riding through the spawn, firepots into the spawn and catas shooting the spawn is absolutely common on every map.

185 205
  • 7 May '19
 Roag

I think having such extensive auto-moderation is un-realistic, purely given the amount of time it would take to develop - making a couple of tools to monitor/view player stats is the most likely option.

In Chivalry, the mod team banned thousands of griefers etc over the years with really minimal tools to support us - all it takes is a bit of persistence and the right tools for the job.

Sometimes all people need is a warning, banning should always be a last resort.

95 81
  • 7 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

To be honest, I was not looking at extensive initially at all - I was really thinking of things that boil down to extremely minimalistic numbers and account maintenance in a database, not a huge codebase effort.

But sure, it would be a start to moderate better and more, but if 500k copies have been sold, it is going to be hugely more efficient to have something as simple as "if time on server is greater than 2 minutes and team damage is greater than 20%, kick player with 5 minute ban and warning message not to teamdamage".

If you want to do a touch more, then add remembering users and more escalating steps past that, but for now even a super simple threshold + timing = automated kick and warning would already do heaps and not require more than half a day / day of code and testing.

185 205
  • 8 May '19
 Roag

Whatever it is they decide to implement, I hope it's done well. For the time being there just needs to be a tangible moderator presence, whether in-game or simply dealing with reports pro-actively, though given the early stage of the game's release I doubt there are many tools in place to enable proper logging/tracking of players...

185 205
  • 17 May '19
 Roag

My impression from the last patch is you're no longer able to votekick on Frontlines/TDM/Skirmish. I haven't had a chance to play yet, can anyone confirm...?

111 54
  • 17 May '19
 yvesgomes

I saw some votes being cast on Frontline. I think the change was that you can only vote for people on your team, which makes sense.

Also, what do you guys think about the idea of presenting an option to a player when he is TKed. The option would be to Start a Vote Kick against the player who killed him. And if a player has done a lot of team damage, the victim has the option of kicking him immediately.

Another cool thing would be to present such options after someone dies after taking considerable team damage, even if he is not actually killed by the griefer. The idea is to make the option of vote kicking griefers easily available while you are waiting to respawn, even if the griefer doesn't go all the way to kill you.

Aaaand I would like to see a team damage value (or %) displayed along with the vote kick pop-up. It is usually hard to judge if someone should be kicked, when he isn't obviously trolling the whole team.

5 0
  • 5 Jun '19
 Taldorin

Putting it here as well in case they see I caught two cheaters named "Curb" and "Nuclear Starman" and have been searching for a way to report

Count 38 44
  • 5 Jun '19
 Random428

You also need to be able to scroll down the list of players so you can see the guy with -1600 points at the bottom of the team.

It might be useful to have some idea of what punishments will be given to the guys who block their own spawn and teamkill every game. If they risk losing the price of the game for behaving like that, it might make some think twice.

162 104

@Roag said:
Couple of times when spawning on mountain peak as red (I think? was in a cave) I found myself on fire as soon as I spawned and lost a good chunk of HP (team mate fire-potting spawn). Spawn protection should be a bit more extensive imo.

The game is partwise very buggy. If you hit the wrong keyboard keys or mouse button while your dead and wait on the respawn, as soon as you respawn your character is doing the action which fits to the keys you have pressed early while dead.

It happend to me also, that i had pressed the mouse button while waiting for spawning rapidly and as soon as my character respawned he automatically did a swing without me pressing anything. Its a input buffer bug thing. And i really hate that they did not fix it so far. So what you have probably experienced was someone who had equppied firebombs as main weapon before dying and accidently released them after respawning with the same build and then you spawned 1-2 seconds later in them.

Another spawning bug is that you can only move sideways, but not forward and backwards for 1-3 seconds right after the spawn, sometimes.

But otherwise i agree with you completely.Game needs:

  • autokick for to much teamdamage and teamkills with a 1 hour ban for that server after the kick
  • teamswitching mid round should not be possible
  • teamdamage and teamkills should show up for every player on the scoreboard and while votekicks are happening for the accused player and the player who is accusing
4 1
  • 5 Jun '19
 Arc-Arctander

The number of people trolling/tking has already started to increase over the past few days and it will only get worse, a game like this is a haven for people who enjoy this kind of behaviour. There needs to be a team damage tracker for players on the server (like Chivalry had) so people who are tking are easily identified and votekicked or reported.

Agreed. Put something automated in that will eventually boot & block people from being on the server after a certain level. And if they do it repeatedly, block them from any server for a period of time. Set it to "age out" so that playing a lot doesn't mean it'll be an issue because we've all lopped off a friends' head or two in an ugly fight. And archers trying to help might end up porcupinin' a few of the good guys too... but the intentional TK and blocking the exits, etc. That kind of childish griefing just wastes everyone's time.

117 114
  • 5 Jun '19
 The Bird

I usually just execute them...

14 28
  • 5 Jun '19
 Schpam

Track damage as a rating that will decay over time. A player who is consistently damaging his teammates would maintain a higher rating that overcomes the rate of decay, but everyone else and including player who are just clumsy would not.

When a vote suddenly pops in the middle of my game, I never know if I'm voting to remove a legitimate problem or if I'm just enabling some butt-hurt player get his revenge on an otherwise harmless revival.

So displaying more information for a vote would be nice.

162 104

@Schpam said:
Track damage as a rating that will decay over time. A player who is consistently damaging his teammates would maintain a higher rating that overcomes the rate of decay, but everyone else and including player who are just clumsy would not.

When a vote suddenly pops in the middle of my game, I never know if I'm voting to remove a legitimate problem or if I'm just enabling some butt-hurt player get his revenge on an otherwise harmless revival.

So displaying more information for a vote would be nice.

Plz no decay orelse the trolls could just figur out the rate of decay and then just wait it out until they are good again and continue trolling afterwards. Maybe you should get a warning message if your treshold is almost full as kind of last chance, but plz no treshold decay orelse the whole system would be pointless.

I dont know about you guys, but im ok with retarded people getting autokicked if they teamkill with the catapult with every shot.