Mordhau

Is it fine that you can't hit around a shield?

95 81
  • 7 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

If its true that a patch will address this soon then I will just wait to see what that will do.

Other than that, to briefly sympathize with some of you guys: I am tired of hearing that you can "hit around shields", when I have spent 15 hours now watching situations like 3 or 4 people from all angles bash into someone ducking below a shield and absolutely nothing landing until someone either comes up exactly behind him 100% (yes, I've seen hits FROM BEHIND someone get shield-blocked, too, omgwtfbbqsaucehoweven) or the guy ends up squished against a wall and finally some of those slower-than-slow-now-press-slomo-okay-now-imagine-that-slomo-in-slomo-okay-THATS-our-kickspeed kicks land.

And the time between lowering the shield and quickstabbing/swinging seems to be essentially instant.
No.
Just no.

Let's just be honest about what's going on - its that 1h and shield blocks are costing single digit stamina amounts while protecting you better than a Holtzman shield and allowing twoshot-with-head / threeshot kills is not "helping new players". Its screwing up gameplay.

162 125
  • 2
  • 8 May '19
 Schwarzchild

buff swing/poke release by a marginal ms enough for z stabs to be more prominent

64 34
  • 9 May '19
 Crumly

@Frise said:
Jesus christ this thread is a cancerous loop of people proposing attrition based solutions that don't solve anything and saying 'hue just kick or jumpstab' completely missing the point of the whole discussion, that any braindead retard can avoid those and survive for half a minute against 4 people just by holding S and block. Do any of ya'll bother reading the rest of the comments before repeating what everybody else said? Or any of the other shield threads? I can't believe devs let this happen. 2 years of doing nothing and who guessed it, now shields are more cancerous tham in Chiv.

If you're claiming shields are anything but WEAK in chivalry, then I'm afraid I have to question your qualifications for even having an opinion on ANYTHING

I'm not anywhere near the best player in chivalry, most players know me (if they played FFA anyway), I'll take on ANY player in chiv if they're using a shield

64 34
  • 9 May '19
 Crumly

@HalldeiMaul said:
If its true that a patch will address this soon then I will just wait to see what that will do.

Other than that, to briefly sympathize with some of you guys: I am tired of hearing that you can "hit around shields", when I have spent 15 hours now watching situations like 3 or 4 people from all angles bash into someone ducking below a shield and absolutely nothing landing until someone either comes up exactly behind him 100% (yes, I've seen hits FROM BEHIND someone get shield-blocked, too, omgwtfbbqsaucehoweven) or the guy ends up squished against a wall and finally some of those slower-than-slow-now-press-slomo-okay-now-imagine-that-slomo-in-slomo-okay-THATS-our-kickspeed kicks land.

And the time between lowering the shield and quickstabbing/swinging seems to be essentially instant.
No.
Just no.

Let's just be honest about what's going on - its that 1h and shield blocks are costing single digit stamina amounts while protecting you better than a Holtzman shield and allowing twoshot-with-head / threeshot kills is not "helping new players". Its screwing up gameplay.

Not saying shields couldn't use an adjustment, and I agree that stamina cost increase is the way I'd like to see them nerfed, but your high level of exaggeration is covering over a reasonable argument.

I am unsure exactly how many times it's happened, but 50-100 at least (i have fourty hours of game time roughly), higher maybe even, where I have used Overhead/right side attack with my axe and smashed them in the back with my axe, then just a plain left side slash while sprinting to the left and ahead, fucking dirt nap time.

I think players can absorb too many hits in 1v1 with a shield, although it just increases time to kill them really, but if they nerfed it much it would make shield useless in frontline

15 8
  • 9 May '19
 bae.

@Schwarzchild said:
buff swing/poke release by a marginal ms enough for z stabs to be more prominent

This. I manage z-stabs fairly alright with both 1h/2h BS and LS wouldn't mind a small buff to manipulate a little more.

3 0
  • 9 May '19
 shawnBK

The issue here is everyone wants a free game they can log into and get max everything, wreck everyone, start a YouTube channel, make 10 mill. Try everguest for 6 months then come back and beg they never undo the shield.

Knight 1269 3810
  • 9 May '19
 Frise

@Crumly said:
If you're claiming shields are anything but WEAK in chivalry, then I'm afraid I have to question your qualifications for even having an opinion on ANYTHING

When did I do that? Cancer != weak. They were cancer because they allowed a player to completely forget about the main mechanics in the game except for sidestabs, which were easily countered by pressing CTRL. On the other side, the other player had to read feints, delays, reverses, etc. And kickstun was useless against any shield player with half a brain. You could still out-stam them and beat them consistently. But they were cancer because they were annoying to fight against, boring to play with, and were completely OP below high-level play.

162 125
  • 1
  • 9 May '19
 Schwarzchild

@Frise said:

@Crumly said:
If you're claiming shields are anything but WEAK in chivalry, then I'm afraid I have to question your qualifications for even having an opinion on ANYTHING

When did I do that? Cancer != weak. They were cancer because they allowed a player to completely forget about the main mechanics in the game except for sidestabs, which were easily countered by pressing CTRL. On the other side, the other player had to read feints, delays, reverses, etc. And kickstun was useless against any shield player with half a brain. You could still out-stam them and beat them consistently. But they were cancer because they were annoying to fight against, boring to play with, and were completely OP below high-level play.

maybe a new mechanic is needed? or just buff swing manipulation? or make shields parry but negate more stam? ugh....

95 81
  • 9 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

@Crumly said:
I am unsure exactly how many times it's happened, but 50-100 at least (i have fourty hours of game time roughly), higher maybe even, where I have used Overhead/right side attack with my axe and smashed them in the back with my axe, then just a plain left side slash while sprinting to the left and ahead, fucking dirt nap time.

Maybe the axes are exceptionally better than this, but it is my daily experience for many, many, many encounters that you basically are guaranteed to hear that shield thwock if the guy is pressing block while any amount of people are attacking them.

Look, its not like I enjoy having to post near daily defense of this being an issue, I would much rather already be playing something where it doesn't take near voodoo magic to hit past a shield. Or where the window between kicking a shield while its up and even a rapier stab is so tiny, that if you blink, you miss your free hit. Or where the time between raising and lowering the shield and being able to attack again is essentially identical with a shield as it is with a normal weapon.

Quite frankly, I don't care which angle is taken. My personal preference actually isn't stamina, but simply a MUCH larger window of not being able to attack and vulnerability between raising and lowering the shield would fix pretty much 30-40% of all frontline teams consisting of shield + short spear/rapier/morningstar.
I mean - if the window in which I can hit a mis-parry of someone with a slow-as-molasses 2h is as wide as a barn door, I don't understand why shields are so much more..shielded.

I'd actually prefer to be able to hit shield users on merit of timing (and not stamina or area nerf), whether its after landing a kick or timing into their lowering of the shield. Because that fits, imo, with the core theme of Mordhau - timing and tactical exchanges.
But right now they basically recover from either of these situations way too close to instantly.

23 15
  • 9 May '19
 Radix

Shield HP would fix all of these problems

Count 131 219
  • 10 May '19
 Pariah

Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

If they've backed themselves into a position where you can't flank - leave them and kill their teammates.

They have gimped reach and damage potential, so use your noggin and adapt.

23 15
  • 10 May '19
 Radix

@Pariah said:
Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

If they've backed themselves into a position where you can't flank - leave them and kill their teammates.

They have gimped reach and damage potential, so use your noggin and adapt.

You are talking as if the shield user cant turn to face your flanking

Count 131 219
  • 10 May '19
 Pariah

@Radix said:

@Pariah said:
Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

If they've backed themselves into a position where you can't flank - leave them and kill their teammates.

They have gimped reach and damage potential, so use your noggin and adapt.

You are talking as if the shield user cant turn to face your flanking

If it's a two on one, and one flanks, then the shield user has to face one, leaving a side open to the other. Two attacks coming at the same time, from different sides, forcing them to either choose a side, or get flustered and eat both.

It's not that tricky of a concept.

That's how flanking works.

777 1031
  • 10 May '19
 smellycathawk

@HalldeiMaul said:
Quite frankly, I don't care which angle is taken. My personal preference actually isn't stamina, but simply a MUCH larger window of not being able to attack and vulnerability between raising and lowering the shield would fix pretty much 30-40% of all frontline teams consisting of shield + short spear/rapier/morningstar.
I mean - if the window in which I can hit a mis-parry of someone with a slow-as-molasses 2h is as wide as a barn door, I don't understand why shields are so much more..shielded.

I'd actually prefer to be able to hit shield users on merit of timing (and not stamina or area nerf), whether its after landing a kick or timing into their lowering of the shield. Because that fits, imo, with the core theme of Mordhau - timing and tactical exchanges.
But right now they basically recover from either of these situations way too close to instantly.

Shield raise/lower delay makes the shield feel like total ass to play with. I want it to be balanced and fun to fight with and against. Not made into something such a chore to use that nobody uses it thus the game is balanced.

2 1
  • 1
  • 10 May '19
 Dae

@Pariah said:

@Radix said:

@Pariah said:
Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

If they've backed themselves into a position where you can't flank - leave them and kill their teammates.

They have gimped reach and damage potential, so use your noggin and adapt.

You are talking as if the shield user cant turn to face your flanking

If it's a two on one, and one flanks, then the shield user has to face one, leaving a side open to the other. Two attacks coming at the same time, from different sides, forcing them to either choose a side, or get flustered and eat both.

It's not that tricky of a concept.

That's how flanking works.

The problem with this "solution" is that you assume that it's always a 2 on 1 (or more) situation.

If, on the other hand, you're fighting against a literal wall of shields, what are you supposed to do? Throw fire bombs all day and hope they sit still long enough to burn?

Knight 61 42
  • 10 May '19
 Optimates

@Dae said:

@Pariah said:

@Radix said:

@Pariah said:
Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

If they've backed themselves into a position where you can't flank - leave them and kill their teammates.

They have gimped reach and damage potential, so use your noggin and adapt.

You are talking as if the shield user cant turn to face your flanking

If it's a two on one, and one flanks, then the shield user has to face one, leaving a side open to the other. Two attacks coming at the same time, from different sides, forcing them to either choose a side, or get flustered and eat both.

It's not that tricky of a concept.

That's how flanking works.

The problem with this "solution" is that you assume that it's always a 2 on 1 (or more) situation.

If, on the other hand, you're fighting against a literal wall of shields, what are you supposed to do? Throw fire bombs all day and hope they sit still long enough to burn?

Shields are OP because you couldn't beat a literal wall of them!

Baron 47 89
  • 10 May '19
 Tatornator

I don't have too much trouble going around shield users blocks in 1v1s, especially against lower skilled opponents. Also I think its particularly easy to get free hits on them by forcing misses. Now on the other hand, get Xv1d by a squad of moderately skilled opponents using shield+short spear is fucking difficult to deal with. You can't even win the chamber stam war with them if you use a a 2h with mostly t3 armor.

414 418
  • 10 May '19
 nohbdy

@Optimates said:
Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion but,

I think the devs have done a good job of balancing shields thus far, i don't feel like they are remarkably good in a multi person skirmish, because there is such a limitation on the weapons you can wield, you can't exactly go ahead and swing a huge axe or a maul, or a halberd that has high reach and high damage, you're making a huge compromise and limiting yourself to mostly medium damage and low reach weaponry.

I think there is a bit of a culture in these forums of calling anything that people find difficult to play against as OP, this isn't healthy from a game balance perspective and I hope the developers make additional effort to be objective in the way they balance things, as i feel like they did during the alpha.

I agree with all this. Shield isn't OP. It's just cheese, or 'broken' if you will. Most of all, it's a crutch that dumbs down the combat and makes it so you don't have to learn half of the game's core mechanics. Honestly, I think it would be best if there is any way we could somehow balance shields while at the same time forcing shield users to time their blocks just like the rest of us. Some benefits to using a shield that don't involve a held block could be a better stamina drain negation, longer active blocking window as compared to a parry, shorter recovery between blocks, or maybe even the ability to morph/feint ripostes.

Count 131 219
  • 10 May '19
 Pariah

@Dae said:
The problem with this "solution" is that you assume that it's always a 2 on 1 (or more) situation.

If, on the other hand, you're fighting against a literal wall of shields, what are you supposed to do? Throw fire bombs all day and hope they sit still long enough to burn?

Welcome to the forums.

If you're being meme'd by a team running a full shield wall, meme them back with a team full of polearms.

Anything in this game can be strong if enough people coordinate.

Fact is, a single shield user in a 1v1 or a 1vX where you have the numbers is little to no threat.

A shield user in a cluster of enemies when you're at a numbers disadvantage is going to ruin your day, but at that point you're either out of position and too far from your team, or the last man standing.
To get out of either situation alive, you're going to have to be skilled enough to clutch and position on the fly to mitigate the numbers or be extremely fucking lucky. This is how it's supposed to be.

Knight 928 2545
  • 10 May '19
 Pred

@Pariah said:
Sorry but if you're all banging on the front of a shield instead of flanking a shield user in a 1vX situation to get a quick kill, you've got a way to go on the git gud scale.

https://streamable.com/9d0ze