Mordhau

Personal opinion: 64 players ruin the very core of Mordhau's fun.

101 170
 Sektor

This might be controversial but I honestly believe 48 player servers were better. The problem with current player limit for me personally is that combat itself, by far the most developed aspect of Mordhau and obviously the most interesting gets dumbed down to the point of feeling like playing a different game than the one I played before in Alpha. Mordhau might have issues and balancing problems in some areas but nothing is game breaking to the point of isolating it as ruining the game. But 64 players in a server might be just that. The fundamental problem with the current Frontline population is that combat gets cut in half in quality of what it is. Overpopulation on the servers lead to pretty much forcing you to play extremely fast in fear of being outnumbered or because of the fear of losing an objective to the enemy. This destroys a big part of the learning curve which is experimenting in combat. The current Frontlines learning curve leans toward death most of the times and just that. Strategies become obsolete due to nearly-instant spawns and that gets worse with 32 people on a team. There is global pressence of teams everywhere, even after a fight where you killed them all, and won a passage for your team. This does not happen. Random people will spawn nearly every second, making progress feel like a tiring method of winning that does not work at all. Certain classes and weapons suffer due to the overpopulation aswell. Archers (even though I hate archers) for example, will get flanked at all times, due to people randomly passing through or having the knowledge of them being there. Smaller weapons hardly become viable due to the spam of spear and long weapons that get favored in survivability due to the nature of the mode and how chaotic it is. Shields become nearly mandatory to hold ground for new players due to ganks aswell. Biggest issues are the unstable servers that currently offer clunky ping (compared to what you SHOULD PLAY with) FPS drops when a big amount of people are around you and a general ever-changing need of awareness around you. Someone will ALWAYS be behind you to kill you and you will always be behind someone to kill him with 1-2 hits and no fight. Engineer class pretty much becomes a troll class instead of reinforcing points and delaying chokepoint intrusion, and in general the mode feels like a zerg deathball match in favour of one team 90% of the time.

I personally have been doing very well in Frontlines, scoring a big amount of kills and not many deaths but it just does not feel fun since we started playing with 64 dudes in the server. FPS drops increased, ping increased and ganks increased. All of these contribute into downgrading the quality of combat and make roles/weapons/positioning obsolete in favor of ganks. \

I am very aware that duels and smaller scale fight modes are better for learning, yes, but the problem with frontlines is that it feels like a different game in quality of everything. Frame rate, ping, combat, planning and executing.

I perfectly understand the concept of Frontlines, but I prefer gameplay quality over faithful practice of the 'concept' of the mode. This is simply my opinion for discussion, its not for bashing the game. I love the game and will continue to play it, just my 2 cents.

8 10
  • 4 May
 SFJake

Am I missing something? Official servers are still 48 players for Frontline.

101 170
  • 4 May
 Sektor

@SFJake said:
Am I missing something? Official servers are still 48 players for Frontline.

Nope, they upped it to 64 last patch that 'fixed' lag.

10 13
  • 4 May
 Skl3ros

I have been making 2 posts about this as well (though they were probably poorly worded) so I fully agree. Having such a high playercount in these relatively small maps just isn't fun at all for many reasons:

  1. You get ganked and outnumbered all the time.
  2. You cannot appreciate the deep combat system this game provides when every fight you engage is a LMB mess.
  3. Lower FPS.
  4. You almost never get any 1 vs 1 which is what this game excels at.
  5. A lot of teamdamage.
  6. More archers to get shot by since many players (especially newers ones) cannot consistently do well in melee so they pick archer to avoid the chaos altogether.
  7. As a single player you have less impact on the objective and winning the map.

There is more good reasons and together they just make the gameplay experience much less enjoyable than it could be by simply not having so many players per servers. Since the maps are basically the same size as in chiv 24-32 players would be ideal. 48 is already pushing it but at least still better than the current 64.

1286 3789

theres no way in hell im going to read all that just play battle royal or look for a free for all server

8 10
  • 4 May
 SFJake

@Sektor said:

@SFJake said:
Am I missing something? Official servers are still 48 players for Frontline.

Nope, they upped it to 64 last patch that 'fixed' lag.

So why, when I open the server browser, are they all at 48 players? The 64 are not official and are few.

15 19
  • 4 May
 Unseul

Surely if you don't enjoy a game mode, don't play it? There's plenty of smaller skirmishes/deathmatches/duels etc to play.

Frontline (at least for me) is the opportunity to play more as a unit, where an organised group of 8+ can make a huge difference by working together and teaming up on players etc.

1v2, 1v3 etc are skills all of their own, and can still be equally as deep.

Empress 349 847

@TombstoneJack said:
theres no way in hell im going to read all that just play battle royal or look for a free for all server

While it's not structured very well, he makes some pretty fair and obvious points about the current state of Frontline.

AKA, the noob gamemode, lmb spam, stab spam, shields, breathing projectiles (literally air is filled with them) the mode does revolve around backpedaling near teammates, spamming stab because it's got the most reach, switching onto enemies, and ultimately getting hit in the back by some level 2 with mace which 2 shots you

Honestly, it's chaotic and it is to a degree fun, but you can't enjoy Mordhaus melee mechanics in FL too much

101 170
  • 4 May
 Sektor

Telling me to enjoy something else not only proves that you have not read anything i've written with the intention of discussing but also proves that you think that this is a personal salty post and you contribute nothing but adding a plus one to your post count. I never said I dont like Frontlines, read before you post, I mentioned fundamental issues that downgrade skill ceiling in a game mode that could be much more both in fun and learning curve. This should feel like a battle, not a race for kils and lack of cooperation. Frontlines is by far the most fun and immersive mode the game has to offer. Battle royal is extremely half-baked to the point of being a joke if you ask me. FL has structure, objective based gameplay and offers great amount of action. But the problem with overpopulation is that it not only enforces you to play 1vX against shields, spears, bows - which is not a problem - but it does it in such a chaotic way that the fun is drained. 1vX is already in a questionable state. 64 players makes it worse, forces a big hit in performance with FPS drops and increases latency in big scale (25-50 more ping on full). When I criticize something, It does not mean I dont like it. If I didnt like it, I wouldnt give a shit about actually making a discussion for it.

As Empress said, FL is now a noob mode, and that is thanks to the constant scenarios of being able to outnumber or be outnumbered. The depth is gone from combat and its just baseball swing fights in unfair fights. Who has the favor on the fight does not matter. If you pay attention to the map and have a little bit of awareness, you can be in the winning fight most of the time. But its not fun. There is no challenge. And while I do not expect FL to ever reach the skill ceiling that duels performed by the top players have, it is still the backbone of Mordhau in attraction. All of my friends and I literally mean all of them bought Mordhau because they liked FL after I told them to check out the game. Majority of people has no interest in slapping each other in DM or TDM endlessly. It has no purpose. FL has structure and objectives while allowing big fights and constant fights to happen. It feels like war, is what I'm trying to say. And it is with great shame that it gets overshadowed by subpar servers that already do not perform well and on top of that with overpopulation that handicap gameplay which is the main selling point of Mordhau.

15 19
  • 4 May
 Unseul

I understand what you are saying, but surely the point of frontline is that it is messy. You try not to end up in a 1vX situation. It's a teamwork situation, where the skill ceiling is lower, but good players are still clearly good players, and top the charts. Yes ping is a little higher, but I've not seen it +50 (at least not since they fixed the high ping issues from before).

I've no idea if you've a group to play with, and can only speak for myself (as a relatively poor player), but 8 people working together (range of ability and loadouts) absolutely made a huge difference to the games, because of that cooperation, easily winning each map (even the ones typically balanced against one team).

Empress 349 847

It's a fun gamemode Sektor, in the sense it's chaotic. It actually feels like a real medieval battle. But this is just a game, with really good melee mechanics that very often, you don't get to utilize because you're either

  • Killed by an archer half the map away (he wasn't even aiming at you)
  • Wounded by an archer 10 seconds after you spawn, so you have to hide and regen health so you can hopefully soak up an lmb or stab spam when you go into combat
  • Killed by catapult
  • Killed by RNG trebuchet projectiles
  • Killed by firepots
  • Killed by swords flying through the air

Seriously atleast on Camp, the whole gamemode seems to revolve around projectiles

The air is literally just filled with flying shit that'll kill you.

I just don't understand the fun in it, sure for casual jump on the game fart around play knight people it's probably perfect.

But for anyone who wants to enjoy Mordhau's excellent melee mechanics, bah.

Just gonna stick to duels and tdm tbh

529 278

eh? Going to disagree...... it's SUPPOSED to feel like a massive battle where you have to act fast. I don't get it :P Only problem in larger games is more people taking my horse >_<

101 170
 Sektor

I understand your post, but the problem is that you do not realise that there is a difference between being messy by design and being messy because it does not work. I am very aware of what FL is supposed to be. I have no arguement against what it tries to achieve. I like that it is messy. But I dont like the mess that is created by the horrible servers at the moment. And I get that too. Triternion is a small company, releasing their first game. I have no problem with playing with 90-100 ping. But 64 people is a choice. And currently all that this choice does is literally ruining the quality and the insane depth of the combat.

Also, I said before that my friends bought this. They all played Mount and blade and half of them played Chivalry casually for quite some time. They still can stomp most people there (because most are new and/or casual) and we always come first on scoreboard. But that is not the point, simply because we can manage to have a great impact in the game that does not mean that the mode is perfect. I think we need to look beyond ourselves regardless of being good or bad in FL. The quality of the game is what matters and currently, in my opinion, FL shows half the quality of what Mordhau is and can be. And that is both a problem of the issues that server have with latency and overpopulation which interrupts the great flow of the combat.

Knight 21 19
  • 4 May
 Archer1145

You seem more keen on duels anyway and that's fine. Playing frontline is completely different and it takes a lot to become a master of the chaos. You have to constantly check to see who has your back before you attack the enemy and keep tabs on who the good guys are because you obviously have to play differently against them. Choose routes that are not in the archer's line of fire and if at possible try to close the distance and take them out, all while constantly looking around because someone would notice you and come attack you, usually in numbers so know when you need to just turn tail and run away if possible. And a lot of times, avoiding the chaos while contributing to the team is just impossible so just riposte those attacks in to as many people as possible when surrounded because a lot of newer folks forget that you can still return the punishment when you're outnumbered.

382 575
 smug

higher population servers wouldnt be an issue if it weren't for the long-standing fact that footsteps for enemies offscreen don't play meaning you have less awareness even at the maximum fov level.

this makes 1vX not just high population servers frustrating because its essentially a free hit for anyone behind you.

regardless frontline really isn't a good mode, i have no idea why the devs didnt just port over team objective from chiv which was arguably the most popular game mode, and flowed a lot better.

however it would be a good experiment to see a 12v12 frontline comp format play out just to see if it even functions when you tone the chaos down.

25 41

I agree with this.

The combat is best in small scale engagements. I would like an objective based mode with less players (TDM is just killing) to emphasize this. I believe a 32 player or 16 player frontline would be very fun.

14 6
  • 5 May
 bae.

@smug said:
higher population servers wouldnt be an issue if it weren't for the long-standing fact that footsteps for enemies offscreen don't play meaning you have less awareness even at the maximum fov level.

this makes 1vX not just high population servers frustrating because its essentially a free hit for anyone behind you.

regardless frontline really isn't a good mode, i have no idea why the devs didnt just port over team objective from chiv which was arguably the most popular game mode, and flowed a lot better.

however it would be a good experiment to see a 12v12 frontline comp format play out just to see if it even functions when you tone the chaos down.

Miss Chiv's TO and doing clan matches on them.

529 278

@machinegod said:
I agree with this.

The combat is best in small scale engagements. I would like an objective based mode with less players (TDM is just killing) to emphasize this. I believe a 32 player or 16 player frontline would be very fun.

16 people running around on huge camp map? ridiculous.

Chaos is part of the game, get good, don't make me sound like a troll. You NEVER want to get flanked by someone or have to fight more than 1 person at a time? Thats WAR.

I'm sure it will be much different when clans start forming, and start using formations, and proper tactics.

Conscript 4546 6277
 vanguard

Still think the maps are way too small for 64 players tbh. It's just a massive clusterfuck of death, I can see the why some people think it's fun, but most definitely not my coup of tea.

I'd rather have way bigger maps with more than one objective to capture at the same time, so the teams spread out more and the clusterfuck effect is overall reduced, while making team effort and coordination more important and less of a caveman game mode.

I avoid playing it tbh, I'd like too play it but it's just too clusterfucky to the point it's annoying imho.

@Christian2222 said:

@machinegod said:
I agree with this.

The combat is best in small scale engagements. I would like an objective based mode with less players (TDM is just killing) to emphasize this. I believe a 32 player or 16 player frontline would be very fun.

I'm sure it will be much different when clans start forming, and start using formations, and proper tactics.

It will never happen. Make a formation and watch it being firepoted to death and literally murdered by archers.

Once competitive starts to live, it will be small LTS games with probably 5, max 10 people on each team.

81 88
  • 5 May
 Xanith

I agree honestly, I feel like 24 is the sweet spot for pubs. 32 is pushing it but playable, anything more is a laggy clusterfuck of LMBs.