Mordhau

Shields are retarded

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@yvesgomes said:

@k0dlak said:
I feel like increasing the range of the kick even slightly can do a lot. Perhaps a higher stamina depletion for shield users would balance it out a bit as well.

How about increasing their loadout cost, too?

You mean just make shields cost more points?

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  • 3 May
 yvesgomes

@Christian2222 said:

@yvesgomes said:

@k0dlak said:
I feel like increasing the range of the kick even slightly can do a lot. Perhaps a higher stamina depletion for shield users would balance it out a bit as well.

How about increasing their loadout cost, too?

You mean just make shields cost more points?
Yes.

Not necessarily only nerf the that way, but it could be one of the nerfs.

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@Pred said:

@wierHL said:
Honestly alpha patch 14/15 shields seemed pretty ok

Patch 14 shields being OK is a massive meme, it's just by comparison to all other straight absurd iterations they seem less broken then.

Basically the difference of patch 14 shields was that only Kite remained an impenetrable wall instead of all three, while for Targe attacks were going straight through it from perspective of the defender. It was also time when chambers cost 0 stam (which was a massive buff for 2 handers compared to current chambers) and there was no stam on hit, so even if you revert straight back to patch 14 shields, they would be indirectly buffed on top still being too good back then.

Yeah it was hell parrying with targe during this update but targe is now using parry so it's no longer "part of the problem" so to speak. If held block were to return for targe it would be fair for it to be a stamina whore with the same hit box as heater shield.

Heater was high skilled and best of everything in patch 14/15 and I considered it totally fair for all parties involved. Again if parrying by location was too hard for some at high level then obviously people should stick to 2h which is superior anyways.. but I did not feel gimped fighting at high level with heater shield and it definitely felt like an improvment from vanilla 1h... afterall blocking where is far more intuitive than when...

As for kite being impenetrable in 14/15 I have to disagree. Kite was a useful tool in team fights because it's stamina health and it held Grad's doorways well but it was too big to see around when reading attacks in the open against high level 2h players. Also every bdy loved to target switch side hits into it... which is exactly what we want to see when these shield boys charge in XvX. So it was good with the team and certain 1vX situations and great for countering archers and had great stam negation and I know it would be good in FL but it fell short in duels and the like for the very same things that made it good for team play. This is the only shield that should have raise/lower delays, slower running speed, etc.

These people crutching on shields right now do so, not because they like shields, but because they're invincible in FL and will get easy kills with rapier/short spear or messer and know kick stun won't work in XvX no matter how much range kicks have.

Accurate parryboxes are "not ideal" because they require reading and most people want shields so they dont have to read at all and get to cruise along with their team and use spammy weapons. But how else can we get shields to read attacks and still have a held block if not by smaller/accurate parryboxes?

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 nohbdy

Shields should cost more points in proportion to how big they are. Kite Shield should cost 7, so a kite shield along with a 4 point one hander costs the same as a halberd. Either that or just make them all cost 7

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  • 3 May
 RyMarq

Either improve kicking a bit, or make it so leg shots are open in a narrow arc. Should make leg armor better, as its right now the weakest choice.

Duke 754 1200
 Stumpy

I can 1v5 if there are no shields. I can 1v2 maybe 3 maximum if they are really bad when using shields.

I've seen new people, just grab shield, bastard sword and bloodlust then get top kills and do 1v4's from shieldblock spam and easy riposte spams because if they get a kill they get full heal again.

Literally noobs who dont even know what morph or how to feint can just grab a shield and go top 1.

While if you intend to go top with a 2h you must have alot of skill and know how to target switch. Riposte drags, chamber feints and stab overhead morphs in order to even survive. And even if you've practiced all this and played for 300+ hours you will still die because so many noobs dont know how to play melee so they pick up ranged and just arrow spam.

Everytime i die in frontline, it's because im fighting 1 shield and 3 melees and 2 archers and 1 axe thrower.
Pulling off 1v8's against no shield or ranged backup is quite easy.
I use 3/3/3, friendly perk and bloodlust. Dont have enough points for good wep so i start with short sword for 1 point and just kill some poor newbie with a zwei, take his zwei and then go on a 1vx massacre. Riposte target switching on the light/no armor zwei/ranged classes aiming for the head insta kill in order to heal is the only way to survive 1vx while there are ranged people shooting at you.
Most people are new so they are quite easy to 1vx. I never could pull off the 1v5+ on alpha beta servers since everyone there was sweaty tryhards lol

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What you are describing is a problem with bloodlust. This perk shouldn't be in the game. It's just abusive.
That doesn't mean that shields are fine. But without that stupid perk they wouldn't be quite as terrible.

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Zwei with T3 will always be more cancer than Shield/BS with Blood lust. Afterall kick stun wont stop your zwei in it's tracks in 1vX.

Kite shield being 7 points? I actually laughed aloud.

The point costs are perfect for all but buckler, which should be no more than 2 points. Accurate shield model hit boxes and no retarded kicking a shield to magically defeat it should set things right in FL and dueling. Not a nerf, not a buff... just balance.

Duchess 76 79
  • 3 May
 ChrisFries

It would be fun if the billhook could grab the shield away or make them ragdoll from it. Just as it would do to the horse riders. I bet the majority would start using billhooks and less people using shield. Problem solved.

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@ChrisFries said:
It would be fun if the billhook could grab the shield away or make them ragdoll from it. Just as it would do to the horse riders. I bet the majority would start using billhooks and less people using shield. Problem solved.

The devs should hire you to balance their game.

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Nah no special weapon should be required. That'd just take shields from a completely 1 dimensional mechanic to 2 gimmicky dimensions. Shields need to be omnidimensional with multiple ways for any player to get around, like parry.

As long as its possible to drag around it when the user makes a bad mistake it'd be fine. Currently you can drag a stab right into their side or even their back sometimes and it counts as a block. why?

So what if they reduce shield hitbox forcefield, and to make them not useless, make it so you can attack and block at the same time, which is how a shield works in real life. Or add a quick shield bash or something. Honestly do something with them, they feel completely out of place in this game as is.

the nubs are starting to catch on to this too, and shields are becoming more prevalent every day. Seriously reducing the enjoyment of the game.

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I liked your post and then unliked it when I saw that you want to make shield block even while hitting. 1h will always be inferior to 2h because of reach and drag range... This is supposed to be this way because yeah 3pt falchion + 2pt heater shield should even out against 5 pt long sword in a duel... but 2-4pt weapons and 1-2pt shield should not directly even out against 7-11 pt weapons.

What I'm getting at is that half the advantage of expensive weapons over cheap weapons is landing hits after kiting/baiting an early attack and then punishing with longer range and drag. Shield working and blocking hits while the 1h is swinging diminishes this significant (and necessary) advantage 2h must have over 1h.

1058 1696

Will the devs or Jax please comment on shields? Like smelly cathawk pointed out, shield builds (especcially light armor rapier/short spear shield builds) are becoming more prevalent every day since release and not much can be done to counter them in XvX.

This needs to be addressed soon.

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@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I liked your post and then unliked it when I saw that you want to make shield block even while hitting.

That was just a suggestion and it could be balanced out if you just think about it instead of dismissing it outright. Again idc how you balance them. I just want to be able to hit them when they play badly...

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 AJ93

Sounds like alot of you guys are salty af and want everything but 2h swords removed xd

Shields retarded af wtf qq
Rapier so OP man omg
Spears unbeatable such bs
Archers so dumb all shit pussies

Imagine crying about getting smashed by a fast jousting esc blade with your big heavy 2h sword such injustice and imbalance ;)

Talk about shields being cancerous on frontline, when every cunt is running around with a 2h swords... Constantly swinging it round there heads like some mental jedi warriors.

Everything counterable easily. Someone above said kicks leave you open, then try morphing your kicks. You CAN stab round it. Throwing axes, daggers and arrows can also hit them if you hit them in the right area, fire bombs... List goes on.

If there back paddling, get around them.
If there turtled in a corner, kick them

Actually simple.

It's actually nice to see some diversity on the battlefield, 2h sword users are Residentsleepers

Love AJ <3

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  • 4 May
 nohbdy

There's the shield scrub that can't play the game without a crutch

Knight 1269 3804
  • 4 May
 Frise

I'm honestly astounded that in 2 years of alpha they haven't done shit to adress the shield issue, and stuck to the idiotic, lazy kick stun bandaid. So much for being better than Tornbanner.

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  • 4 May
 AJ93

Maybe they should add 2h game mode only, so you all can play helicopters together ;)

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  • 4 May
 nohbdy

I just messaged marox personally about this and apparently they're currently focusing on server issues so "no [estimted time arrival]" with regard to a shield nerf

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  • 4 May
 Sektor

@AJ93 said:
Sounds like alot of you guys are salty af and want everything but 2h swords removed xd

Shields retarded af wtf qq
Rapier so OP man omg
Spears unbeatable such bs
Archers so dumb all shit pussies

Imagine crying about getting smashed by a fast jousting esc blade with your big heavy 2h sword such injustice and imbalance ;)

Talk about shields being cancerous on frontline, when every cunt is running around with a 2h swords... Constantly swinging it round there heads like some mental jedi warriors.

Everything counterable easily. Someone above said kicks leave you open, then try morphing your kicks. You CAN stab round it. Throwing axes, daggers and arrows can also hit them if you hit them in the right area, fire bombs... List goes on.

If there back paddling, get around them.
If there turtled in a corner, kick them

Actually simple.

It's actually nice to see some diversity on the battlefield, 2h sword users are Residentsleepers

Love AJ <3

Typing 'love x name <3' at the end does not hide your hurt. Rapier will get overhauled, devs already said that but did not make it in time for release. Spears are ok in 1v1/tdm scenario but they are a cancer in frontline. Expect changes soon. Also Archery has been buffed last minute to literally please two crybabies from the alpha community. Now that frontlines is out, I am not going to be surprised if they tone them down. I see current archery as experimental from the devs point of view. This is a melee slasher game, not a realistic depiction of medieval battlefields and not an archery game. The melee system is far too complex to be overshadowed by shitty stab spamming (rapier) and kids who want to play call of duty.