Mordhau

Shields are retarded

777 1029

you don't even have to react in a game about reactions. just attack and then turtle. and I can't even drag my sword around the side, or top of the shield so wtf am i supposed to do? In chiv there were jump kicks AND you could drag around them and it was fine. Now they are just impenetrable fortresses with 1 way to solve them. wtf

Baron 3 1

My main class uses short spear and the 1h axe, i have 0 trouble vs shields.

You can easily jump stab them in the face, right angled stab or overhead around the shield, spam any attack until they’re out of stamina, kick&stab repeatedly achieves the same. And for ultimate humiliation you can always headshot them with throwables.
For example: throw axe at head/feet, for an initial surprise, jump stab with spear for nice head damage, kick and finish with a right-side dragged stab.

162 124

Eh drags are still small, right now I think its 525ms for biggest, even the zwei has the same release as a long sword which feels weird

1058 1696

Kick stun was a bad idea every time it's been implemented, feet should bounce off of a shield anyways and stun just feels bad. Jump stabs look ugly and arcadey and cost stamina. We shouldn't have to leap in the air to beat shield, I should be able to aim for the legs/face or whatevers open while grounded.

If parry is lax against location but strict against timing... then shield block which is lax to timing should be strict to location.

If you can't handle defending against timed feints then use shield, if you can't handle waterfalls, leg hits and side stabs with a shield then you should use timing based parry. If you can't handle either timing deceptions with parry or locational deceptions with shield then git gud

1058 1696
Empress 349 847

Ya fuck shields

Literally not even fun to fight they can fuck right off tbh

Takes like 8 hours to outstam them

Kickstun to accel isn't always viable if they backpedal like fk and kinda know what they are doing

two mace gambles and ur dead

fuck off

skill based melee game

play shield

god

56 136
  • 3 May
 k0dlak

I feel like increasing the range of the kick even slightly can do a lot. Perhaps a higher stamina depletion for shield users would balance it out a bit as well.

1058 1696

Doesn't matter how long kick is it doesn't help you when fighting a shield along side multiple other people. Kick leaves you wide open and hitting the stunned shield is predictable and you will be flanked by everyone else. Target switching from the kick instead of punishing the shield takes a few IQ but the shield then gets to gamble you along with whoever your target switch didnt hit.

Also kicking is supposed to be defensive and increasing kick range/speed would just make it obnoxious, gambly and wouldn't change the fact that shields are over powered in ganks or team play. Besides what's the logic behind kick stun, I hated that patch where everyone was stunned on kick but loved that shield/parry blocked kicks that patch. Shield should block kick.

Shield should also be accurate to shield model and if that's too hard for the shield bois then fuck off and use normal parry.

Knight 460 888
  • 3 May
 wierHL

Honestly alpha patch 14/15 shields seemed pretty ok, maybe make them a little more forgiving than that and it should work fine.
But they'd have to lose their lockout too or they'd be too clunky to deal with multiple incoming attacks. If they lose their lockout and people are coming from different sides you can kinda use it as a parry tool, and hold it up to block multiple people from the same side without having to care about timing or protect yourself from projectiles more efficiently.

TL;DR block area about same size as model, maybe a little wider, remove shield lockout and kickstun

193 385

If parry is lax against location but strict against timing... then shield block which is lax to timing should be strict to location.

amen

Knight 917 2522
 Pred

@wierHL said:
Honestly alpha patch 14/15 shields seemed pretty ok

Patch 14 shields being OK is a massive meme, it's just by comparison to all other straight absurd iterations they seem less broken then.

Basically the difference of patch 14 shields was that only Kite remained an impenetrable wall instead of all three, while for Targe attacks were going straight through it from perspective of the defender. It was also time when chambers cost 0 stam (which was a massive buff for 2 handers compared to current chambers) and there was no stam on hit, so even if you revert straight back to patch 14 shields, they would be indirectly buffed on top still being too good back then.

Knight 460 888
  • 3 May
 wierHL

@Pred said:

@wierHL said:
Honestly alpha patch 14/15 shields seemed pretty ok

Patch 14 shields being OK is a massive meme, it's just by comparison to all other straight absurd iterations they seem less broken then.

Basically the difference of patch 14 shields was that only Kite remained an impenetrable wall instead of all three, while for Targe attacks were going straight through it from perspective of the defender. It was also time when chambers cost 0 stam (which was a massive buff for 2 handers compared to current chambers) and there was no stam on hit, so even if you revert straight back to patch 14 shields, they would be indirectly buffed on top still being too good back then.

Huh, guess my memory's fucked.

2 4

I dont think shields are that bad in a 1v1. Yeah, still a pain, but doable.

Shields in anything outside of 1v1s are almost unkillable (if they know what they are doing), with the only way to deal with them effectively being to isolate and 2v1 them.

In 1vX scenarios, its just at a point where I think two decent players with shields could probably take out the best player in the game 100 out of 100 times, and I think thats so lame.

101 171
  • 3 May
 Sektor

Make axes able to destroy shields. Kicking and movement being the only counterplay to retards who hold right click button and kiting for their team to arrive is bad design. Or nerf their swing speed. Lots of choices. Rapier and shield is an absolute cancer on frontline.

777 1029

@Apaukolypse said:
I dont think shields are that bad in a 1v1. Yeah, still a pain, but doable.

Shields in anything outside of 1v1s are almost unkillable (if they know what they are doing), with the only way to deal with them effectively being to isolate and 2v1 them.

This is what annoys me.

I can 1vX other nubs quite well, it's honestly the most fun part of the game. 1v5 or 6 is even possible if you are just better, and that is something special that games like for honor or dark souls could never do. But even a 1v2 becomes simply impossible if 1 of them has a shield. Literally just run at the enemy holding block and when ur shield gets hit just riposte and spam spam spam!

My z stabs that they totally fall for are stopped by invisible walls, and kick is a joke to land when you can either take literally ONE step back to avoid it, or simply drop your guard in the last 0.001 second so you won't even know they weren't fucking stunned until you hit their shield again with your follow up attack cause it seems there is no stun animation? Or worse, if they are good, they'll bait a sad slow weak kick out of me, take a step back and start attacking.

Imo make the hitbox for them smaller against melee so drags are viable. Shields are immune to feints morphs and all mixups and timing tactics, why are they immune to drags now too?
Allow us to jump when we kick. Allow us to morph out of a kick into an attack to bait baiting.

529 278

From a strategic game mode point of view (frontline) it makes sense to be able to have shield guys push, and block all the hits, otherwise it would be pointless. From a small scale skirmish point of view it is really frustrating encountering these shield/messer guys, especially with a slower weapon because you just cant hit them. Best bet is to take distance with your 2h and bash their shield until their stam runs out. Or if you have a faster weapon you can attack when they attack.

106 133
  • 3 May
 ItsDatBoii

@Sektor said:
Make axes able to destroy shields. Kicking and movement being the only counterplay to retards who hold right click button and kiting for their team to arrive is bad design. Or nerf their swing speed. Lots of choices. Rapier and shield is an absolute cancer on frontline.

Breakable and well fitted hitboxes on shields would make them very fun for everyone. Just like it is in M&B Warband.

30 42
  • 3 May
 Vaygr

Shields in 1vs1 are fine. Shields in 1vx stump even the best players if you watch Giru/Stouty/Bob stream for example. They just take away all your options with drags/feints/morphs or lmbing through several people to a guy holding RMB for a few seconds or five. Kicking a shield or jump stabbing someone in 1vx is a very quick way to die. It reduces the game to a zerg mode of attacking queing a lot of the time and new players are starting to figure out that shields counter even the best players and is an excellent crutch for not needing to learn much about the mechanics of the game. I was facing 2-3 shields in almost every fight on one server, it was a mix of frustration and mind numbing boredom. Might as well switch to firepots or try and get a horse or go play a cookie-clicker game where you need to press LMB a lot instead of just holding down RMB =D.
That being said i think this is a problem for a few hundred decent or skilled players right now. There are other bigger problems like the basic loadouts leaving weaknesses in legs and heads giving newbies cause to create threads about the executioners sword needing a nerf for example.

529 278

@Sektor said:
Make axes able to destroy shields. Kicking and movement being the only counterplay to retards who hold right click button and kiting for their team to arrive is bad design. Or nerf their swing speed. Lots of choices. Rapier and shield is an absolute cancer on frontline.

Or make it so axes, and billhooks can actually GRAB the edge of the shield and pull it out.

111 53
  • 3 May
 yvesgomes

@k0dlak said:
I feel like increasing the range of the kick even slightly can do a lot. Perhaps a higher stamina depletion for shield users would balance it out a bit as well.

How about increasing their loadout cost, too?