Mordhau

How I would balance Archery/Horses/Traps

101 171
  • 25 Apr
 Sektor

Starting with archery:

The current archery system would be kept as baseline, The opinions on archery differ, some consider it extremely annoying like I do and then there are the actual archers who think that it requires too much effort. Considering that you never quite know the amount of HP your enemy has, it leads to extremely varied situations. The problem though is what happens when there are multiple archers. My personal opinion is that multiple archers are just broken if you do not have a shield and destroy the pace of the game. As an individual archer you do minimal damage and require a decent amount of calculation and aim to actually hit someone. My personal suggestion is to give archers 3 distinct perks to choose from while retaining the baseline archery as it is now. But bare in mind that I would never consider archery as a main damaging class, since the melee system is far more complex and it would be just unfair to give easy mode archery in a game that requires extreme effort in its melee system. Therefore, the 3 perks are:

a) War bodkin quiver: Deal 20% more damage to tier 3 armor. Other tiers remain the same as baseline. optional: movement penalty x%.

b) Needle bodkin quiver: Deal 15% more damage to tier 2 armor. Other tiers remain the same as baseline. optional: movement penalty x%.

c) broad-head quiver: Deal 10% more damage to tier 1 armor. Other tiers remain the same as baseline. optinal: movement penalty x%.

These 3 distinct perks should be not be allowed to co-exist together on a character, but at the same time they should allow to be used along with the current hunter perk which deals more damage to other ranged. The speed penalty is there as something that I thought that would also give a disadvantage to the extra damage that you get. I said optional because I am still skeptical about it.

With these perks, there will be multiple builds for archers, that will allow specialization as a support class, allow multiple archers to co-exist together and be strong together or individually. The multiple bows that we have in the game will also allow a rather big variety aswell, and not to imitate AWP from CSGO in a melee slasher game. The percentages I wrote are from the top of my head. They seem fair enough, testing could show different.

Lastly, regarding archers it has been bugging me a lot the fact that they get a crosshair and can shoot the bow without drawing it fully. I left this discussion for last because I am not quite sure if these things could be catastrophic for an archer if they are removed. I certainly do not like the fast shooting speed some archers do without fully drawing. Regarding crosshair, I believe a proper draw animation and arrowhead align in the screen could potentially allow for very accurate archers without making the aiming system unrealistic.


Horses:

The current problem with horses are the fact that they tanks. Literally, tanks in disguise. They do not react when they get hit, their physics go through anyone and they are just not fun to play against. Therefore, these are my suggestions:

1) Horses can maintain full speed untill they get to half their HP. They, then, suffer a 30% speed penalty, and each hit causes more slowdown, until death. Horses could heal when the rider gets off after some time, allowing the enemy team to breathe without worrying about the horse for a bit and potentially flanking to kill it while it recuperates. I think giving a perk or an item to heal it would be too much for scenarios that take place in combat but it could be a potential solution.

3) Bear traps to actually work on horses. A bear trap on a horse's leg would be obviously be extremely painful, to the point of fucking up their bone. I dont see why we don't have this. Bear trap visibility is an issue, I agree, but something could be worked out.

4) Firepots scare the horse. Self-explanatory. A firepot will halt the horse and make it turn around. I would not give loss of control as a mechanic because this game is all about control but I would definitely make the horse react to fire somehow.

5) Too much damage within a timeframe of seconds (1 or 2 seconds) would cause the horse to halt. If you have a team that is good enough to co-operate in taking down a horse, then that should be rewarded. In a scenario of a team fight with a horse charging in and being a potential game changer due to damage and staggering, if your team turns around and 2-3 players hit the horse for x amount of damage within 2 seconds, then the horse should be halted. I see horses as vehicles pretty much. They are game changers, lances are stupidly strong (naturally) and I think some kind of reward should be given to the players who can pull it off. Currently there is not really a penalty for bad horse riding to a group aka bad positioning and charging penalty, other than damage. And considering how much damage the horse can take, the result is not noticable.


Traps:

Quite honestly not much to change here. They are a bit cheesy but I dont find them so annoying. But, in skirmish I think restocking from chests should be limited to 2 per life. That little change would have a big impact on the infamous grad skirmish where playes crawl on a tower and wait till the first mistake. It reminds me a lot of competitive mount and blade. A lot of idle time. Simply not fun.


I am not a big fan of building and toolbox, as I have witnessed my team one time hitting planks for like a minute and then some naked guy from the other side with a hammer just kept fixing them. Extremely unrealistic and tedious in my opinion, but I have not thought of anything that would not ruin building in the game.

Thats all, be gentle I hope they dont suck so much. sorry for the long post. peregrine stop making archery complaint videos.

Mercenary 2185 3899

Personally I use Longbow to harass melee while focusing on enemy archers. Longbow just has too low arrow count to focus on full melee imho, unless I have access to ammo box nearby. The arrow gets fucked on by lots of stuff before actually hitting the target; practice fodder (a.k.a teammates), random clash mid-air, teammates again, missing and you better believe, teammates walking in front of me while I'm aiming.. Like, excuse me good sir, can you not ?

As for Shortbow, pretty much the same but with more defense against other archers with armor on and to pretty much harass faster.

Coming to your perk suggestion:

IT.WILL.GET.SHIT.ON

Cause majority of melee just doesn't care if you got super duper balanced perks, whole system or whatnot. They will just bitch about it when they see "OooOOaah +%X DAMaGe !?!? NANIII baD GAEm !??!". There would be lots of threads full of rage.
To keep melee casulz at bay, archery shouldn't have any +Damage imho (other than to other archers).

Agree on Early Draw Time shooting tho, it should be looked at.

Knight 156 154
  • 25 Apr
 Peregr1ne

As an archer main, I think that the amount of effort it takes to use ranged weapons like the recurve, throwing knives, rocks as well as the weapons you can throw are all fine and reasonable. Whilst the recurve for instance has a high fire rate, it also has low damage meaning you aren't going to kill most targets even if you hit them multiple times in the head. If they are wearing T3 especially they will take 3 hits to the head to kill or 7 to the body. And I can tell you that achieving that many hits is near impossible when the enemy really knows how to dodge. Throwing knives and rocks are balanced in a similar fashion. Throwable weapons are more damaging but of course you only get one shot and the projectile speed is very slow.

Crossbows and longbows are without a doubt the biggest issue at the moment. The projectile speed means you are more likely to hit your target generally and the high damage means you don't have to be as consecutive with your shooting. Having this high projectile speed means that you can stay at more of a distance and still have about as easy of a time hitting targets as a recurve bowman at short range. Except it's actually easier when you factor in that they can be out of sight for as long as they choose, meaning targets are more predictable due to being unaware of the archer. It was the same thing with crossbows in Chivalry. The most successful archers in the EU competitive scene were crossbowmen, and in pubs the average rank 30 crossbowman was ahead on the scoreboard compared to every other archer. Heck, jump onto any game in Mordhau with a longbow archer on one side and a recurve archer on the other and I guarantee 9 times out of 10 the longbow archer will be the more successful one. It all comes down to how easy the weapon is to use.

The perks could be an option I suppose. I don't know though. People complain about archers killing them even with the low damage some of the weapons do now. Increasing the damage through perks might only make these players despise them even more. The damage of each weapon is generally fine as is and shouldn't need any perks to change that.

Crosshairs could be removed. I don't believe it makes much difference personally but I heard some players say that there are monitors that can put a crosshair on the player's screen anyway, rendering this particular change pointless.

Knight 460 888
  • 25 Apr
 wierHL

I view groups of archers shutting down certain areas and interfering with an established melee flow as a valuable parst of the medieval battle experience, but I think that's subjective.

The thing I'm worried about with projectile speed is that if we lower it too much it would start feeling "off." Maybe we could look at other medieval games for guidance. Projectile speed in Warband feels pretty good to me personally.

101 171
  • 26 Apr
 Sektor

I like how archery is a support role, but I still think in groups it massively ruins a lot of the pace of the game. I hope for some limits tbh, every game that includes over 2 archers is simply not enjoyable for me personally lol

Knight 460 888
  • 26 Apr
 wierHL

2 achers

I assume you're talking about SKM/TDM then?
2 archers on a full frontline team is not a lot

Knight 156 154
  • 26 Apr
 Peregr1ne

Unless they are using the unbalanced weapons I mentioned, I don't really have any issue with archers personally. Even if I was playing a melee class/set up myself archers were the least of my worries. And yes, even if there was more than one of them on the enemy team. If the projectile speed wasn't too high I could avoid getting hit by them pretty well.

The thing with weapons like the recurve is that you have two options: A) You get close enough to the enemy where you can land reliable hits, but this means being close enough that it won't take too long for the distance to be closed on you. You will also have limited options if any for cover. Or there's B) Stay so far away that they will likely not be able to reach you, but this means your accuracy will be unreliable due how long it will take your shots to reach the target. They'll simply be too easy to dodge/block at that point. You'd be better off as a melee support.