Mordhau

Flail Discussion/Suggestions

47 25
  • 2
  • 15 Apr
 Digganob

I have a few suggestions for flails for the future, and I'm curious if they are even planned for the future. Also, I know, flails ain't realistic, but so ain't a lot of things in this game, for instance the eveningstar, or the maul.

  1. Their chains could not contact the parry hit boxes of the enemy's weapon, making it easier to get around their defences.

  2. Feinting could be special, so that when you feint you can go into an attack a lot faster and/or combos could be quicker in between attacks, being represented by you spinning the flail, allowing attacks to become less predictable.

  3. Maybe make swings wider for it, so that you have to be careful around teammates? This one of the reasons swinging weapons like nets weren't a good idea in actual wars, because you often have a lot of people around you.

  4. BALANCE: Since a lot of these ideas would make the flails really good here's an idea for balance. Make it impossible to parry and chamber with it, unless you have a shield, in which case you can parry. Or, alternatively, to allow people to use only the flail, make it only able to chamber, so that it is possible but really hard to defend yourself without a shield. Also, of course, you shouldn't be able to stab with it, unless it would be a really weak stab where you just kind of throw the head at them with a sort of stabbing motion, like you're whipping 'em. Of course, this would be super bad, but an option.

My goal with these balancing ideas is to make flails what they would be in real life: impractical, but potentially useful.

  1. Make it possible to hit after comboing, but still make their hitstop a thing sort of. As in, when you hit someone, you can still combo, but that attack can't hit multiple players, representing the ball losing its inertia, but your handle keeps on moving.

I'd like flails to be implemented somehow, because I think that they are a cool idea, but I'm not sure how they can be implemented without either being boring or unbalanced, so devs and players, your thoughts? Mechanic ideas/ways to balance them?

41 128
  • 15 Apr
 KingOfSow

@Digganob said:

  1. Their chains could not contact the parry hit boxes of the enemy's weapon, making it easier to get around their defences.

Unparryable weapon? What a great idea.

197 390

they would need their own unique moveset which is a lot of work for 1 weapon subset i guess. if im correct there is 4 total movesets, fists, 1hand, 2hand and pole.
and then each weapon animation is tweaked on an individual basis.

with flails there are not many similar types of weapon to ration a supposed moveset. but they might try it after releasing the game, who knows

Knight 5103 6844

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/14360/is-there-a-flail/#c2

Regarding the mechanics of it, it depends on how much work and time devs want to put on it. They could go as complicated as your and other suggestions in the past or simply give them more unique stats and idk, make it so they can hit multiple people regardless of being a blunt weapon.

1090 1721

Wow two flail threads in two days, maybe the devs should listen what the universe is trying to tell them. Obviously any talk about flails is purely theoretical and theyll just have to wait for the future but its fun to imagine what they could be like.

I imagine the light one being 3 pts, 3/4htk, short range with weak drags as the result of poor reach but good waterfalls, side hits and feints/body feints and obviously no stab/chambers. Hit stop or not is kinda negligible since it's such a short weapon and fighting multiple people will never really be it's thing, unless it has very fast combos like war axe.

Maybe instead of hit stop they get clash on hit? That would be pretty bad ass.

By chain being unblockable or lacking tracers, the OP meant that the head would have the tracers and be what does damage, opening the door to attacks hooking around parry and requiring more accuracy from the defender. NOT that it is altogether unparryable. If it's too long then this would play out really bad. If it's too short then it could miss people despite passing through them lol so it sounds iffy but maybe it could be pretty cool.

Knight 5103 6844

Idk about short range, i'm not saying it should have masive range for a one hander but at least should be good. One of the usual advantages of a flail and soft/flexible weapons in general is that they ocupy way less space when folded/coiled than other weapons of their lenght so they are easier to carry and often have good reach at the expense of ease of use. A one handed flail for example, can have a shaft as long as a mace but greater reach because there is also piece of chain and then the mace head.

47 25
  • 15 Apr
 Digganob

@KingOfSow said:

@Digganob said:

  1. Their chains could not contact the parry hit boxes of the enemy's weapon, making it easier to get around their defences.

Unparryable weapon? What a great idea.

I'm not saying the head wouldn't contact the hit box. It just requires them to pay more attention to where they're parrying.

47 25
  • 15 Apr
 Digganob

@SherbershLemel said:
they would need their own unique moveset which is a lot of work for 1 weapon subset i guess. if im correct there is 4 total movesets, fists, 1hand, 2hand and pole.
and then each weapon animation is tweaked on an individual basis.

with flails there are not many similar types of weapon to ration a supposed moveset. but they might try it after releasing the game, who knows

True. I was thinking it could just be harder to parry with the same moveset as a typical 1 hander, like a mace.

47 25
  • 15 Apr
 Digganob

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Wow two flail threads in two days, maybe the devs should listen what the universe is trying to tell them. Obviously any talk about flails is purely theoretical and theyll just have to wait for the future but its fun to imagine what they could be like.

I imagine the light one being 3 pts, 3/4htk, short range with weak drags as the result of poor reach but good waterfalls, side hits and feints/body feints and obviously no stab/chambers. Hit stop or not is kinda negligible since it's such a short weapon and fighting multiple people will never really be it's thing, unless it has very fast combos like war axe.

Maybe instead of hit stop they get clash on hit? That would be pretty bad ass.

By chain being unblockable or lacking tracers, the OP meant that the head would have the tracers and be what does damage, opening the door to attacks hooking around parry and requiring more accuracy from the defender. NOT that it is altogether unparryable. If it's too long then this would play out really bad. If it's too short then it could miss people despite passing through them lol so it sounds iffy but maybe it could be pretty cool.

Yep, just weird mechanics like faints and waterfalling getting a buff with the flail would be cool. It'd really fit the wonky nature of using something like a flail, but also make it weird to fight against. Btw, what do you mean by "instead of hit stop they get clash on hit?"

1090 1721

Blunt weapons colide with a player then the attack stops. So blunt weapons can only hit 1 person at a time.

Clash is where two attacks hit simultaneous and instead of trading or passing through, both players attacks stop and very quickly start a new attack. I'm suggesting that flail get the interesting feature of clashing on peoples bodies instead of stopping like other blunts.

47 25
  • 15 Apr
 Digganob

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Blunt weapons colide with a player then the attack stops. So blunt weapons can only hit 1 person at a time.

Clash is where two attacks hit simultaneous and instead of trading or passing through, both players attacks stop and very quickly start a new attack. I'm suggesting that flail get the interesting feature of clashing on peoples bodies instead of stopping like other blunts.

Hmmm, I don't think that would very much sense realistically, and I don't think it's what the developers would like. Also I think it'd feel kind of weird. But that is a pretty neat idea, and I get where you're coming from. I would also like for the flail to be just spinning constantly, but I think that would be like a pre-attack mind game sort of thing you know? Making the flail the only blunt weapon that can go straight through someone would be a pretty big deal. Although, keep in mind that if you kill someone with a blunt weapon, it goes straight through like any blade, so you can still utilize it like that sometimes, if you're smart about fighting 1vx.

Knight 1383 3152

gibe flabll

Knight 5103 6844

@Digganob said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Blunt weapons colide with a player then the attack stops. So blunt weapons can only hit 1 person at a time.

Clash is where two attacks hit simultaneous and instead of trading or passing through, both players attacks stop and very quickly start a new attack. I'm suggesting that flail get the interesting feature of clashing on peoples bodies instead of stopping like other blunts.

Hmmm, I don't think that would very much sense realistically

Actually that is realistic. Irl when you hit something with a flail, the energy is imparted by the head and thus it's the head which also stops, you can keep your swing going in the same direction and as soon as the chain pulls the head it retakes the movement in that direction, that's why one of my suggestions is making flails the only blunt weapons that can hit multiple people, but the clash idea is great too tbh i kinda like it even more.

I would also like for the flail to be just spinning constantly

And this is actually unrealistic, with a one handed flail it's freaking tiring to make the head spin with just your wrist unless you grab the shaft by its end, close to the head, which is not very convenient because you reduce reach, power and the weapon becomes more of a danger to you. You can make it spin easier by griping it safely from near the butt of the shaft and engaging your entire arm, but it's very clunky and spining in just one axis becomes very predictable, ideally the flail is constantly swung in diferent directions. Like any other top heavy one handed weapon, you use it at its best by keeping the momentum going once it started.

47 25
  • 16 Apr
 Digganob

@Humble Staff said:

@Digganob said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Blunt weapons colide with a player then the attack stops. So blunt weapons can only hit 1 person at a time.

Clash is where two attacks hit simultaneous and instead of trading or passing through, both players attacks stop and very quickly start a new attack. I'm suggesting that flail get the interesting feature of clashing on peoples bodies instead of stopping like other blunts.

Hmmm, I don't think that would very much sense realistically

Actually that is realistic. Irl when you hit something with a flail, the energy is imparted by the head and thus it's the head which also stops, you can keep your swing going in the same direction and as soon as the chain pulls the head it retakes the movement in that direction, that's why one of my suggestions is making flails the only blunt weapons that can hit multiple people, but the clash idea is great too tbh i kinda like it even more.

Well that makes sense to an extent I suppose, but there would be too much inertia lost after the impact to be able to hit multiple people at once. However, I think a better way to represent just the head stopping would be to allow you to combo with it, just not hit multiple people at once.

I would also like for the flail to be just spinning constantly

And this is actually unrealistic, with a one handed flail it's freaking tiring to make the head spin with just your wrist unless you grab the shaft by its end, close to the head, which is not very convenient because you reduce reach, power and the weapon becomes more of a danger to you. You can make it spin easier by griping it safely from near the butt of the shaft and engaging your entire arm, but it's very clunky and spining in just one axis becomes very predictable, ideally the flail is constantly swung in diferent directions. Like any other top heavy one handed weapon, you use it at its best by keeping the momentum going once it started.

I know that it would be tiring, but not nearly as tiring as, for instance, swinging a mace around like that. To represent this I think that it should just be less tiring to use combos and feints, because of the nature of doing things like that with a flail, it would way easier than with a typical weapon. I'm not saying that it should be able to be spun constantly, just that it can be spun a lot more than a typical weapon.

Mercenary 178 612
  • 16 Apr
 Stauxie

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This image sparks joy.

1405 1475

So the flails should:
1) be hard to parry,
2) be better for feints,
3) be faster in combos,
4) have longer range than other 1h weapons,
5) constantly spin to make the attack animation less readable,
6) be energy efficient

Anything else? How about lots of stamina damage to quickly disarm opponents? How about throwing the flail and if it hits the target is knocked prone just like with a bola? And you could climb higher when you use them as a grappling hook.

Knight 466 909
  • 16 Apr
 wierHL

make it carbon neutral

1405 1475

You simple-minded fool! Do you utterly lack ambition?

7) be carbon negative,

Knight 2243 4030
  • 16 Apr
 Runagate

Also it materializes free food to solve world hunger. Spinning it also fans away all the excess heat from the world, so it also stops climate change. It also has a dynamo and solar panels to generate free electricity.

1405 1475

So far all ideas where reasonable but I'm afraid your suggestions are slowly entering OP territory.

I'm shocked that nobody suggested making flails incompatible with shields just to troll Peacerer.