Mordhau

wayne's wild & wonderful suggestions

18 17
  • 7
  • 13 Apr
 WXX

for those of you who play w/ me, please give this a chance; i'm not necessarily as retarded as my playstyle.

weapon point changes - relative to other weapons

estoc to 5pts
doesn't necessarily outclass longsword, or see a lot of use as is

greatsword to 6pts
doesn't quite measure up to executioner and battleaxe. could take place of estoc as 6pt option

short spear to ~6pts & 2/2
more than just a point change; but, as a hybrid weapon w/ a unique animation, 2/2 ammo would encourage actually throwing the thing. would be more intuitive in general.

combo feint to parry timing / missing attacks

this is more controversial, but i feel that the state of CFTP makes missing attacks far too forgiving. it's really the only thing i've felt strongly about, and the only real difference i prefer in chivalry

too often i face very skilled players who just swing wildly at me while missing because they don't feel it's a risk. i've felt both accuracy and footwork feel less impactful

in 1v1 it's not quite as bad as you gain some initiative and the stamina loss is more punishing, but in a team scenario it makes being outnumbered feel that much worse, and good footwork feel even less rewarding.

misc. musings - for discussion sake

lunge animation / swing range is misleading. i'm not sure how i'd improve this, but it's incredibly difficult to gauge range. and only now am i seeing players (who have upwards of 1k hours) consistently abuse weapon range in duels.

the state of chambers is sort of odd. is there anyway to improve their usefulness in team battle? why doesn't it have hyperarmor like riposte?

i see talk about chambers being too easy now (despite losing to morphs, which are obviously very strong), but trying to chamber any swing manipulation used to be terrible; on the contrary, if chambers somehow led to better offensive options (or somehow better rewarded) i'd gladly take it being more difficult again. this would make the game feel slightly more aggressive-- especially as the skill-floor for defense is a bit higher (easier) as is.

1055 1695

I'm very happy with the state of lunge and weapon reach. The problem isn't abuse of range but abuse of running away, though I'm not sure what can be done about running away.

Previously, every weapons range was ambiguous but with lunge nerfs, a long weapon feels like a long weapon and a short weapon plays like a short weapon and now we get reasonably consistent range gauging. Using the full reach of your weapon is not "abuse" but an encouraged and healthy part of the skill ceiling.

Also, Estoc is definitely priced right point wise. It's reach and invisible blade makes it brutal in team play. No, it's main mode may not hold it's own in a duel against GS but it's Mordhau grip will decimate a GS knight and Estoc is certainly as effective as GS's in team play. Estoc > Longsword due to reach, speed and invisible stabs alone.

Knight 693 1581
  • 14 Apr
 das

I am in 100% agreement with the short spear change. 2/2 would be perfect but necessitate an increase in cost. If they ever add a parry-functioning buckler, I'd probably play this weapon a lot.

There have been boatloads of discussion around CFTP and some internal tests, I wouldn't expect this to change.

I've been able to gauge weapon ranges for quite a while, even when lunge was much greater. Now it's even easier than ever. This is one of those things where you just have to grind some time matrixing greedily and dying + remembering when you are too greedy. Eventually you remember and internalize the distances, just like a musician not looking down at the keyboard/fretboard. I've always disagreed with comments about it being inconsistent or too "impossible" to read.

Estoc is superior to LS in teamfights as aforementioned. One of the best stabs in the game and one of the fastest strikes among 2hers which gives it very good flinching ability. Also heavily rewards accuracy because stabs can 2shot plate and strike headshots on plate still do yellow damage.

I think they're buffing GS soon.

18 17
  • 3
  • 14 Apr
 WXX

ah, been sleeping on the estoc then. part of the reason has been dueling (and longsword results), and poleaxe (stab spam) being at 7. understand now though: invisible head stab spam in team brawls

great replies btw

Knight 2227 3998
  • 14 Apr
 Runagate

Good suggestions. I especially agree that cftp needs something done about it. It should at the very least be explained in the tutorial: To a noob, it just looks like some people are allowed to miss freely with no consequences. The animation is weird and unintuitive, the weapon just instantly zips into a parry from a vulnerable-looking position.

I always see very good players say that there are ways to punish misses consistently even with the current cftp, but I've never seen them tell what those ways are.

Knight 34 103

Change Greatsword to 6 points

[Vomiting Intensifies]

301 875
  • 14 Apr
 Naleaus

@Runagate said:
I always see very good players say that there are ways to punish misses consistently even with the current cftp, but I've never seen them tell what those ways are.

It gets said everytime. Morph, drag, feint, just hit them to get stamina advantage.

18 17
  • 2
  • 14 Apr
 WXX

@Naleaus said:

@Runagate said:
I always see very good players say that there are ways to punish misses consistently even with the current cftp, but I've never seen them tell what those ways are.

It gets said everytime. Morph, drag, feint, just hit them to get stamina advantage.

as i mentioned, this is still just initiative and stamina; negligible for teamfights, especially so for 1vx. and gods of mordhau still swinging wildly, so there's something to their lack of caution.

why is CFTP like this though? what am i missing?

Knight 3278 6704
  • 15 Apr
 Bodkin

@WXX said:

@Naleaus said:

@Runagate said:
I always see very good players say that there are ways to punish misses consistently even with the current cftp, but I've never seen them tell what those ways are.

It gets said everytime. Morph, drag, feint, just hit them to get stamina advantage.

as i mentioned, this is still just initiative and stamina; negligible for teamfights, especially so for 1vx. and gods of mordhau still swinging wildly, so there's something to their lack of caution.

why is CFTP like this though? what am i missing?

Because it means someone running in circles with kite shield and gambling like a fucking moron doesn't become meta.

Fuck chiv

Knight 1269 3804
  • 1
  • 16 Apr
 Frise

Morph, drag, feint. Which is what you do when you have initiative. So basically when they miss, 'punish' them by doing the same thing you would do if they didn't miss. Or just hit them for a negligible stamina advantage. We wouldn't want to reward taking risks, reacting quickly or what's intuitive and makes sense. New players went apeshit seeing videos of somebody doing a matrix and getting the instant gratification for outplaying their opponent in Chiv, but in Mordhau you just get initiative.

Knight 334 777
  • 16 Apr
 AngelEyes

If they insist on keeping cftp the way it is fine, I just get the feeling it’s going backfire. Ironic sort of because it’s forgiving but at the same time when your in team fights and this happens 4 times in a row it literally looks like The game is broken.

It looks like ass and it feels like ass.

Stam punish sure, but I don’t think that’s what the noobs will want to hear when they start noticing it happen constantly.

Moreover, like Runa said they don’t even understand this unless it’s explained to them and it ain’t in the tutorial.

I still think if they must keep it it at least needs to be put in line for its own unique animation down the road. At least so it doesn’t look so utterly broken.

Knight 2227 3998
  • 16 Apr
 Runagate

You said it better than I could.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 16 Apr
 Frise

There is no reason to keep it. All the arguments for keeping it are either imagined scenarios wheres everybody spazzes to avoid getting punished, or a silly claim that there would be less interaction if you could properly punish whiffs (it would ironically add new interactions to the game).

1083 6138
  • 1
  • 16 Apr
 crushed — Art

We might test a small lockout on missed combo windups in the future that would remove the early 1 frame combo feint to parries and only allow the ones where you can clearly see the combo windup animation. I don't think there is anything wrong with the CFTP's with a clear combo windup, but the ones 1 frame after release definitely feel/look weird to fight against.

Knight 459 887
  • 16 Apr
 wierHL

Might does not make right.
Test it.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 1
  • 16 Apr
 Frise

It's a simple change. If you're comboing from a miss and try to feint during a the first 100 ms of that combo, it doesn't feint, but it queues the feint for when that window passes. It takes minutes to implement. Roll out a patch with that and see whether or not people start spazzing around to avoid punishes. Half the argument against this whole thing is that people might act a certain way, why not actually see how it plays during the beta? What's the point of all this shadow-balancing? Hasn't worked so far.

18 17
  • 16 Apr
 WXX

@Bodkin said:

@WXX said:

@Naleaus said:

@Runagate said:
I always see very good players say that there are ways to punish misses consistently even with the current cftp, but I've never seen them tell what those ways are.

It gets said everytime. Morph, drag, feint, just hit them to get stamina advantage.

as i mentioned, this is still just initiative and stamina; negligible for teamfights, especially so for 1vx. and gods of mordhau still swinging wildly, so there's something to their lack of caution.

why is CFTP like this though? what am i missing?

Because it means someone running in circles with kite shield and gambling like a fucking moron doesn't become meta.

Fuck chiv

too late

109 165
  • 9 May
 Speak

Newbie here; did CFTP ever get nerfed (did whiff punishment ever get meatier) or is a whiff punish on a smart player still just a stamina advantage and mix-up opportunity (initiative)?

I've been trying dodge because I like the idea of dodging attacks but my footwork isn't uh good enough to cause a rapier stab to miss on its own. Since Dodge itself eats 10 of your own stamina, I guess it's not much of a Stamina advantage if you cause a whiff with Dodge. I've gotten a few kills with swinging while dodging but I wonder if the opponent's could've CFTP'd that if they'd known how to.

I think I've also CFTP'd inadvertently (didn't know it existed) in chaotic teamfight contexts, just swinging wildly and then starting a swing, going "oh shit", and parrying. I guess if CFTP exists then I should be starting combo swings on pretty much every opportunity (real hits or whiffs, but not on block).