Mordhau

Shields = useless

Duchess 774 3448
  • 14 Mar
 Stouty

Refusing shield duels is perfectly acceptable, shields offer very little practice besides hopefully surviving long enough to outstam and last much longer than a normal fight. Once you've won a shield duel you know everything about fighting shields

Also the shied user gains nothing because there is very little skill involved on their part

Drake aka eu resident shieldtrash actually refuses to duel me now which is hilarious

Duke 2266 4006
  • 1
  • 14 Mar
 Huggles

As others have said, shield weakness is that it is pretty slow and clunky to use, easy to kick, stamina issues, etc. The defensive value is over the top insane and fundamentally breaks the core timing aspect of the game. If you have hundreds of hours and people are getting around the shield, that is COMPLETELY on you man.

You must be literally looking the opposite direction man lmao.

Duke 2266 4006
  • 2
  • 14 Mar
 Huggles

Shield needs a fundamental rework, not a bunch of tweaks.

Right now everyone loses, shield is too survivable but has shit offense. It basically tells you to turtle but then you are punished for turtling.

Turtling is boring and bad, should never be encouraged even if it is suboptimal.

I think it should be ONE of the following or some sort of mix.


  1. Remove Held Block: Either make shield a super parry so it is timed like everything else but has some sort of extra benefit or...
  2. Keep Held Block but: Nerf shield block box again or add turncap restrictions once you have the block up (or a bit of both) or...
  3. Add some sort of mechanic or specialized wep that specifically counters shield, then make shield less clunky and more powerful offensively.

Last I heard the devs were going for something like 3.

Personally, I'd rather have 1 or 2.

Shield should be fun to use and fight, it shouldn't just be a stam war or spamming one specific move/wep.

367 340
  • 15 Mar
 Peacerer

Shields were nerfed significantly by developers on purpose mainly because of 2h elitists whining against them. Ironicly, there were almost no players who used them at the time and surely there's even less players with shields now. Unfortunately, archery headed the same direction. So little love was put into archery by developers. It's garbage, the sad part is it's garbage on purpose! Fake features. Basically it's like developers try hard to keep Mordhau small, when it could be soo much greater.

Knight 108 140

@Peacerer said:
Shields were nerfed significantly by developers on purpose mainly because of 2h elitists whining against them. Ironicly, there were almost no players who used them at the time and surely there's even less players with shields now.

Yes, I remember this well enough. There was like 1-2 good shield players before. It was enough to discourage the ballerinas, who started crying and got their nerf. Now nobody plays with shield (for long anyway).

With shields being a joke and archers hunting each other, 2-handers can make the 90% of the active gameplay. I suppose that's how it was intended all along.

Knight 755 3279
  • 16 Mar
 Mittsies

@ǀǁǂÐƦ₳ƓƟƝƁƟƦƝǂǁǀ said:
2-hander gliding fest
drag-queens
ballerina
I'm not a good player

You don't say.

Conscript 183 471
  • 1
  • 16 Mar
 Shovonem

@ǀǁǂÐƦ₳ƓƟƝƁƟƦƝǂǁǀ said:

Actually the problem with shield is that Mordhau is based on timed parry. So Shield ignores pretty much every mechanic in the game. It ignores drags, feints, morphs etc. That's why people complain. I never mained shield. However, few hundred hours before I was almost done with chiv, I would often use shield in duelyards as sort of a meme with the disgusting shield exploits and all that. You could REALLY cheese with shield in Chiv. Current problem with shield in Mordhau is that:

  1. It's easy to use & brain dead because it ignores most of the offensive mechanic in the game.
  2. It's garbage. You can't fight with it in high level.

We would see a lot more shield players in the game if shield is made better at the same time doesn't ignore the main mechanics in the game. Give high skill ceiling and make it harder to play. that's the fundamental solution. I really want to see more shield players in competitive Mordhau. But no one will want to play it in current state. Just buffing/nerfing shield is not the solution. They need to have more counters as well.

Knight 108 140

@Shovonem said:
Just buffing/nerfing shield is not the solution. They need to have more counters as well.

An underdog weapon doesn't really call for more counters, but I get your meaning. Different kind of shields should have different qualities. Now they're just same useless template with a different-sized parry box, really. Bucklers and smaller shields should be agile, reactive, improving on chambers maybe, but requiring good timing and with a parry box only slightly larger than a 1-hander weapon. Larger shields should have bigger parry box, virtually unpenetrable for the biggest shields. They should be unreactive and slow, designed to delay the enemy, but ultimately losing the stamina battle under an aggressive attack, while also being vulnerable to attacks from the flank.

Allowing shields to push the opponent would already make them more interesting to play, and would require more timing as a shield player. Just defend and ultimately lose your weapon, or find the narrow gap when to push the opponent off-balance and start attacking - or miss it and give a gap for the opponent to get in instead. In essence, this option would allow a counter for both sides.

Knight 108 140

@Shovonem said:
Actually the problem with shield is that Mordhau is based on timed parry. So Shield ignores pretty much every mechanic in the game. It ignores drags, feints, morphs etc.

From the historical perspective, maneuvers like feints, drags and morphs belong mainly to dueling. Mordhau has taken heavy influence from Medieval fighting manuals like Talhoffer and Fiore. While these manuals have some content concerning battlefield (particularly Talhoffer), they are mainly dueling-oriented. A big shield is supposed to counter that kind of agile swordwork and make it near-useless. Sure, the agile swordsman can still overcome the cowering shield-man over time - if he doesn't have buddies to prevent this. But in the battlefield you tend to have those buddies. And therefore, battlefield fighting is not that much about agile swordplay, but formations, group tactics, and yes, those big fucking shields, archery, and 3-5 meter pikes. ;)

Current development stage rewards the same dueling techniques in group fighting, which is maybe not the right way to go. There should be pros and cons to everything. Master your drags, morphs and chambers and kick ass one-on-one. Master your shield, spear and bow and kick ass on the field. This is how it should be in my mind.

395 451
  • 16 Mar
 JasonBourne

Those who think shield is useless, please list ur diet plan and whatever u smoke afterwards. I need that shit.

1058 1696

@JasonBourne said:
Those who think shield is useless, please list ur diet plan and whatever u smoke afterwards. I need that shit.

I'd like to see you duel high level players with shield and BS and show the footage of you raping them since shield is so much better. We know it has 0 weaknesses to low level players but it has 0 strengths against high level players... Prove me wrong and show me how well you hold up with a BS/shield against Giru, Stouty while they use 2h.

Then please list your diet plan and whatever you smoke afterwards. So I can avoid it.

Knight 917 2521
  • 16 Mar
 Pred

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I'd like to see you duel high level players with shield and BS and show the footage of you raping them since shield is so much better. We know it has 0 weaknesses to low level players but it has 0 strengths against high level players... Prove me wrong and show me how well you hold up with a BS/shield against Giru, Stouty while they use 2h.

So you expect to just pick a shield in your loadout and be put on par with top 20 players in the game?

Do you people even listen to yourselves, smh.

Conscript 183 471
  • 16 Mar
 Shovonem

@ǀǁǂÐƦ₳ƓƟƝƁƟƦƝǂǁǀ said:

Current development stage rewards the same dueling techniques in group fighting, which is maybe not the right way to go. There should be pros and cons to everything. Master your drags, morphs and chambers and kick ass one-on-one. Master your shield, spear and bow and kick ass on the field. This is how it should be in my mind.

I get what you are saying in terms of realistic and all that but Mordhau does not aim to be that game. Feints, drags, morphs, chambers give mordhau the insane high skill ceiling that it has right now. At current stage, shield doesn't. Team fight do require a lot of other skills outside of basic dueling skills like positioning, target switch, fake target switch etc. What you are saying sounds cool on theory but it conflicts with the very fundamentals of Mordhau. However, I hate when people cry, "remove shield/shield is OP" instead of actually making any effort of balance it.

Knight 108 140

@Pred said:
So you expect to just pick a shield in your loadout and be put on par with top 20 players in the game?

Do you people even listen to yourselves, smh.

It sounds like he is asking you to show an experienced player who can whoop ass using a shield, when going against experienced 2-hander users.

We seem to be short of those.

395 451

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
We know it has 0 weaknesses to low level players but it has 0 strengths against high level players...

The title said "useless". What ur describing is not the meaning of useless.

Also, I cannot beat shield players like for example Fandalf and im not a low level player. Im no top player either but definitively not a low level either. I already have 1300h while Fandalf has 500. If I need 6k comp hours inorder to beat a shielder, then theres a problem here.

Maybe u can prove me otherwise, go duel Fandalf and record.

Knight 8 14

Did you just @ me?

1058 1696

Shields don't really have a role. They're not good at blocking hallways, chokepoints or 1vX since they stam out quickly and come down when hit, they aren't good at dueling since it takes little IQ to stam out a shield user, I can be winning a duel with full health but I've lost the minute I get morph/feint to kicked, ftp, miss or double block a gamble... They're not good for learning the game because it simply lets anyone spam the shield to win and they're clunky. Shields are so incredibly weak to kicks, you can raise it when feinted, see your opponent switching to a kick but can't move away or counter kick because of raise/lower delay plus ping.

Shields aren't even good at blocking projectiles. They're ok at everything but worse than 2h or even 1h alone in most scenarios, especially where decent opponents are concerned.

They're clunky and not fun to use or fight against and clearly this is the issue. Telling people who complain about current shields being pointless that they're smoking something funny is not constructive and turned this into a shit fest. Do not go into semantics with me because you refuse to rub two braincells together and kick a shield user or run away from 1h.

96 128
  • 16 Mar
 Reapy

I don't see a lot of arguments here regarding arrows. They were a hot topic in M&B because a large percentage of people on pub servers are using arrows, especially wnen defending. Archer here seems just about as fast and effective, so I imagine in release you are going to get peppered with arrows on your way up to doing any melee fighting making a shield necessary. I know you can bat the arrows away but that seems unrealistic when 10+ people are shooting at you.

So playing m&b in a pub server you really were required to have a shield out, even if you wanted to just do melee, otherwise you were half dead before you even got up close. In competitive you just can't use 2h swords at all because you'll be dead in half a second.

Like people have said there is a bias here as in the players that have this game now probably really like melee play and see it as the point of the game. The 'mass' of people getting the game (hopefully) will follow the same pattern I see in m&b all the time, probably try melee for a bit, if not having success, they get on a horse or shoot arrows or a balista in this case. I usually saw this pattern all the time in pub matches, where it might start out heavily melee but as they have less and less success it goes more and more arrow/cav heavy.

Just really expect most servers in release to have at least 50% archers for the number of players. That will really rethink how you feel about having a shield in your loadout I think.

395 451
  • 16 Mar
 JasonBourne

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Shields don't really have a role. They're not good at blocking hallways, chokepoints or 1vX since they stam out quickly and come down when hit, they aren't good at dueling since it takes little IQ to stam out a shield user, I can be winning a duel with full health but I've lost the minute I get morph/feint to kicked, ftp, miss or double block a gamble... They're not good for learning the game because it simply lets anyone spam the shield to win and they're clunky. Shields are so incredibly weak to kicks, you can raise it when feinted, see your opponent switching to a kick but can't move away or counter kick because of raise/lower delay plus ping.

Shields aren't even good at blocking projectiles. They're ok at everything but worse than 2h or even 1h alone in most scenarios, especially where decent opponents are concerned.

They're clunky and not fun to use or fight against and clearly this is the issue. Telling people who complain about current shields being pointless that they're smoking something funny is not constructive and turned this into a shit fest. Do not go into semantics with me because you refuse to rub two braincells together and kick a shield user or run away from 1h.

Provide video. Duel some shielders and post here.

Shields are blocking melee like a wall, but cannot properly block trowables. Its a broken mechanic atm..