Mordhau

Shields = useless

Knight 100 128

Shields are currently useless. 1 player in 10 is using them, because of this.

Going over or under even the biggest shield is ridiculously easy, even with big 2-handed weapons like zwei. They offer minor passive protection against arrows, but are otherwise useless.

I hope this will be sorted out before the launch. Otherwise this game is reduced to same 2-hander gliding fest as Chivalry.

(Also, if you wield only shield and no weapon, you cannot punch with free hand, push with shield or kick. It limits your all available actions to block.)

Knight 855 2314
  • 12 Mar
 Pred

You sure you have the right game?

Knight 2029 3656
  • 12 Mar
 Runagate

You can literally look straight up with the targe and it will protect at least your upper torso. Maybe even more. So what the hell are you going on about?

Knight 170 454
  • 12 Mar
 Duckalot

Only 1 in 10 players use them because they ridiculously boring, as they remove any skill involved towards timing - aka Half of the game.
They are way too easy to use and thus noone bothers playing with them except as a crutch.

Knight 2029 3656
  • 12 Mar
 Runagate

I use a shield when I'm too tired to read and just want to relax

Mercenary 154 560
  • 1
  • 13 Mar
 Stauxie

Shield isn't useless, its just boring to fight. Held block forces players to only use swing manipulation to get around it, or spam kick to get their stam low enough to remove the shield after they block your last attack. Its also the main reason why you don't see many shield users. Who wants to fight them? I speak for myself, but I tend to avoid fighting shield in duel yards and I know other people do the same. So shield users might switch off of shield because people won't fight them.

If you only have shield it provides such a boost in survivability that I'm kinda glad that you can't punch or kick. Its such a chore to try to kill a shield user that players would much rather be fighting someone else that will be more fun to fight.

I haven't been hearing much chatter on where devs want shield to be in the next upcoming updates.

Knight 3218 6543
  • 4
  • 13 Mar
 Bodkin

@Pred said:
You sure you have the right game?

As annoying and impenetrable as they are, they are kinda useless as well simply due to the inferiority of 1h weapons in teamfight.

Mace, Falchion and BS are the only top tier viable 1h weapons if we are being honest. Not counting Cleaver because it is only meta because its the best 1pt. The rest either suffer from crap damage, crap drag/accel mixups or a combination of the two.

All suffer from bad stamina (except mace and BS), especially since feints and morphs cost the same stam regardless of your weapon now. They used to have cheaper feints but that's gone.

Shields are OP and shitty at the same time imho. Kite is the only one thats a direct upgrade as the other two gimp your stam even worse than 1h. I dislike using shields for this very reason.

I like how they look but I cannot stand how gimped I feel with one and how much everyone hates it when you fight them with one. I hope Buckler being a super parry rather than held block will remedy both of these situations. Bucklers look badass

Knight 855 2314
  • 13 Mar
 Pred

@Bodkin said:

@Pred said:
You sure you have the right game?

As annoying and impenetrable as they are, they are kinda useless as well simply due to the inferiority of 1h weapons in teamfight.

Our local shield abusers do very well in team fights, shield is far from useless since it can elevate an objectively bad player to a contributing force.

Knight 100 128

Answers and likes here don't surprise. The majority of alpha actives are old Chivalry drag-queens who feel like the only way to play is the ballerina way. Effective shields would ruin it, so any and all requests for shield fixing are voted down.

I took a few months break from game testing. After coming back, I observed the games for about 3 days on different servers. I saw absolutely NO active shield users, just 2-handers and archers. Someone took up shield a few times but quickly stopped using it.

I tried it myself, and found it highly ineffective. I'm not a good player, but I have hundreds of hours playtime in Mordhau and Chivalry, mainly using a shield. If I can't make the shield work at least in mediocre efficiency, no new player will either.

If playing with a shield is "boring", like some of you claim, it should be made more interesting, instead of the niche weapon nobody uses actively.

Suggestions: work on buckler so that it can be used as an active parry weapon instead of passive wall. Make it more difficult to go around larger shields. Give one more shield even larger than kite shield, or alternatively, make pavise shield able to block and push while equipped. Allow kick or shield push when carrying shield and no other weapon is equipped.

837 1446

Buckler sounds like it will be the only useful shield to be honest lol

I like how shields look and liked that they used to be a soft crutch for my high ping and for beginners... but that was in patch 14, now they're useless.

Bodkin about summed it up. They're impenetrable against low level players but useless against good players (even if the shield user is also agood player.) One kick and the fight is over... One miss or ftp and the fight is over... Shield mechanics defeat the purpose of a shield and your offense is already really weak because you're only limited to 1h cheese. Also shield feels incredibly clunky to use with raise/lower delays. Its like you can't react to your opponents, you can only sit there and turtle and then get punished for turtling. Why bother chambering if it's gonna be 100% stam warfare? If you default riposte to feint/morph you can get spammed and lose uber stamina. Just ONE ftp and you're done. A 2h fighting a shield can spam and ftp to avoid punishment all it likes and still hold stamina advantage. Some people just gamble kick a shield and when they finally get lucky, they've basically won...

Shields look cool but are currently only viable with mace and that's because mace is pretty OP and you'll kill anyone before they have time to spam whatever tactic will stam you out. Fighting a shield is as braindead as using one and it's pretty boring.

837 1446

My blood boils when I see a new player trying to learn the game with a shield and then gets kicked to death by some guy spamming the laugh emote.

Shield mechanics defeat the purpose of using a shield.

Knight 100 128

Nothing to add to the poster above.

Conscript 496 1135
  • 13 Mar
 ohshitsorry

I also have nothing to add.

Knight 855 2314
  • 3
  • 13 Mar
 Pred

@ǀǁǂÐƦ₳ƓƟƝƁƟƦƝǂǁǀ said:
I tried it myself, and found it highly ineffective. I'm not a good player, but I have hundreds of hours playtime in Mordhau and Chivalry, mainly using a shield. If I can't make the shield work at least in mediocre efficiency, no new player will either.

New player won't have to face a bunch of nerds but other average players who will have no idea how to pull off extreme drag manipulation to even give yourself a chance of landing a hit against shield, let alone the skill to also play perfect defense against 300mph 1h attacks which are mostly obscured by the shield.

And we already do have some straight up bad players who do very well with shield so I have no idea what are you basing this on.

This is some Peacerer school of thought right here.

Knight 36 31

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
My blood boils when I see a new player trying to learn the game with a shield and then gets kicked to death by some guy spamming the laugh emote.

Shield mechanics defeat the purpose of using a shield.

thats how they learn

Knight 100 128

@saul_g00dman said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
My blood boils when I see a new player trying to learn the game with a shield and then gets kicked to death by some guy spamming the laugh emote.

Shield mechanics defeat the purpose of using a shield.

thats how they learn

To stop using a shield and start practicing to become a zwei ballerina? Check.

837 1446

I was going to add "they only learn not to use shield" at the end of that last post but I thought it would be useless since everyone else was playing inter-dimensional time chess like me.

You don't really learn how to watch for drags/accels or morphs with a shield with an impregnable parry box. You only know how to hold it up and get spammed by whatever tactic your opponent has decided to spam you out with. It's stamina warfare with an automatic disadvantage. No skill using it, no skill fighting it.

I want to see a much tighter parry box for shield and the raise/lower delays, flinched block and stamina penalties removed.

So a player can react to his opponents actions without clunky raise/lower and have to actively block where an opponent is attacking. Then a shield becomes an alternative means of parrying (locational instead of timing based) and helps give newbies an extra few seconds of life while they learn the game. It would require skill to defeat and more skill to succeed with. It also wouldn't be so boring to fight against if side hitting it and leg/head shots were a thing. Morphing and feinting it will then be viable for more than just kick spam.

Knight 213 593

I must say that I despise when people say "I don't fight shield users" as it does no-one any good. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been rejected a fight for simply using a shield. Am I to practice with bots who don't play by the current meta (dragging, morph, feint, accelerated attacks, and etc)? If It's rather discouraging especially for new players since servers are primarily running duel mode in addition to people generally having negative opinions about people using shields.

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As an avid shield user myself, I believe shields in its current iteration is alright but not OP as many would think. Last patch (patch 19) was the best shields have ever been. Shields don't really do well in 1v1s however in team games they do fantastic work. I try to make it work in most situations with a varying degree of success. I have fun using it regardless of the outcome.

Knight 589 1042
  • 14 Mar
 Uncy

@ǀǁǂÐƦ₳ƓƟƝƁƟƦƝǂǁǀ said:

@saul_g00dman said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
My blood boils when I see a new player trying to learn the game with a shield and then gets kicked to death by some guy spamming the laugh emote.

Shield mechanics defeat the purpose of using a shield.

thats how they learn

To stop using a shield and start practicing to become a zwei ballerina? Check.

Weve got new pasta machine! Welcome welcome, suit yourself

123 265

this is an interesting topic, i need to get all these points in to a list

 - arguments for shield usage:

they help new players defend themselves against drags
they help high ping players with blocking
they are good in team situations, for example holding lines
they are useful against archery

- arguments against shield usage:

they make duels boring (subjective) resulting in stamina wars
they limit weapon options to 1h (which arent considered viable enough, baring 3 exceptions)
it makes defending from pros harder not easier (counter intuitive mechanics)
they are looked down upon by veterans for breaking the flow of 2h combat


i agree that it should be easier to defend with shields against high level players, yes it will break their epic gameplay streak, but we cant design the whole game around one play style. But i also think hit boxes on shields should be severely tightened, in exchange for more manoeuvrability and recovery timings.

another thing for shield i think will be good is to give shields a seperate stamina bar, which regens slower than normal stamina. This means if they lose the shield they are not instantly dead from no normal stamina left. if the shield is being used for the betterment of the team, or as a utility, the player should not be punished for losing it, and should be in a position to fight without it.

this gameplay tweak would make duels certainly more frustrating. but then you still have the option of not fighting against shield users in duelyards, if that makes you happy. and with the changes coming to stab drags in patch 21, i would imagine shields would be even easier to fight against, so it will reduce complaining