Mordhau

Discussion About Short Spear Stab

Knight 213 593

I was wondering if the short spear can receive a slight buff for stab speed. More often than not weapon excels beat the short spear stab speed making its primary source of damage (short spear stab) obsolete when they can hit you faster. Also, take into consideration that you cannot accelerate a spear stab. The zweihander or even executioner sword accelerated attack are faster than short spear stab yet the zweihander & executioner sword both have a longer windup. At times I have to do slash attacks just to hit people which defeats the purpose of the short spear stab.

12 26
  • 10 Mar
 private_ho

If I remember correctly, short spear stab used to be faster when it was first introduced. Then for whatever reason, some people complained and it was nerfed to its current speed in a later patch. So good luck trying to get the devs to revert those changes. No point playing with short spear right now, given its lack of throw, as well as its mediocre stab speed and damage (3 HTK against T2 and T3).

123 265

in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up, or they will continue to never be used, as they are now. the 1 handed to 2 handed ratio is something like 5 - 95 and its kinda sad

Knight 2029 3656
  • 10 Mar
 Runagate

How do you speed them up without making them evem gamblier than right now?

Mercenary 212 529
  • 10 Mar
 Izıl

1h are already rlly fast at high tier play and really gambly

123 265

@Izıl said:
1h are already rlly fast at high tier play and really gambly

as if most 2h weapons arent already gambly, they are the same speed as 1 hands, if not faster, as described above

Knight 855 2314
  • 1
  • 10 Mar
 Pred

@SherbershLemel said:
in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up

lol wut

1h weapons are already way too fast and need some major re-thinking on what their role is supposed to be. Weapon balance's overall "framework" was for the most part transplanted from Chiv, but the changes made didn't compensate enough for FHF and we ended up with 1h being just 1v1 cheese that you are not using right if you are not spamming as hard as you can at avery opportunity.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the current crop of players, many of which already racked up over 1000 hours, is different than an average person who will play this game. If you just walk up to a guy who plays Mordhau every day for 3 hours, stab him in the face two times in a row and he simply fails to parry both times, something is probably not right here and you can imagine how the game will play out in general pop after release.

123 265

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up

lol wut

1h weapons are already way too fast and need some major re-thinking on what their role is supposed to be. Weapon balance's overall "framework" was for the most part transplanted from Chiv, but the changes made didn't compensate enough for FHF and we ended up with 1h being just 1v1 cheese that you are not using right if you are not spamming as hard as you can at avery opportunity.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the current crop of players, many of which already racked up over 1000 hours, is different than an average person who will play this game. If you just walk up to a guy who plays Mordhau every day for 3 hours, stab him in the face two times in a row and he simply fails to parry both times, something is probably not right here and you can imagine how the game will play out in general pop after release.

yes, its clear theres an issue with the core game. as it is indeed a mirror of chivalry. there should be equal incentive to use all weapons. if 1 hand weapons shouldnt have more of a speed advantage, then what should they get?

Knight 855 2314
  • 10 Mar
 Pred

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up

lol wut

1h weapons are already way too fast and need some major re-thinking on what their role is supposed to be. Weapon balance's overall "framework" was for the most part transplanted from Chiv, but the changes made didn't compensate enough for FHF and we ended up with 1h being just 1v1 cheese that you are not using right if you are not spamming as hard as you can at avery opportunity.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the current crop of players, many of which already racked up over 1000 hours, is different than an average person who will play this game. If you just walk up to a guy who plays Mordhau every day for 3 hours, stab him in the face two times in a row and he simply fails to parry both times, something is probably not right here and you can imagine how the game will play out in general pop after release.

yes, its clear theres an issue with the core game. as it is indeed a mirror of chivalry. there should be equal incentive to use all weapons. if 1 hand weapons shouldnt have more of a speed advantage, then what should they get?

Some of them should have a speed advantage, but many of the current timings are past any reasonable reaction time. Overall, there should be good weapons (expensive) and bad weapons (cheap), 1h or 2h should not matter. Instead there is 2000 weapons, all trying to be viable and not enough attributes to make them all different, so we ended up with timings when you are guessing if you should pre-parry.

How do you excpect them to play out if you want to further speed them up - just be 100% unparriable free damage or what?

123 265

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up

lol wut

1h weapons are already way too fast and need some major re-thinking on what their role is supposed to be. Weapon balance's overall "framework" was for the most part transplanted from Chiv, but the changes made didn't compensate enough for FHF and we ended up with 1h being just 1v1 cheese that you are not using right if you are not spamming as hard as you can at avery opportunity.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the current crop of players, many of which already racked up over 1000 hours, is different than an average person who will play this game. If you just walk up to a guy who plays Mordhau every day for 3 hours, stab him in the face two times in a row and he simply fails to parry both times, something is probably not right here and you can imagine how the game will play out in general pop after release.

yes, its clear theres an issue with the core game. as it is indeed a mirror of chivalry. there should be equal incentive to use all weapons. if 1 hand weapons shouldnt have more of a speed advantage, then what should they get?

Some of them should have a speed advantage, but many of the current timings are past any reasonable reaction time. Overall, there should be good weapons (expensive) and bad weapons (cheap), 1h or 2h should not matter. Instead there is 2000 weapons, all trying to be viable and not enough attributes to make them all different, so we ended up with timings when you are guessing if you should pre-parry.

How do you excpect them to play out if you want to further speed them up - just be 100% unparriable free damage or what?

with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

Knight 855 2314
  • 2
  • 10 Mar
 Pred

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

123 265

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

Knight 855 2314
  • 10 Mar
 Pred

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

You play in 3rd person tho.

123 265

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

You play in 3rd person tho.
being in 3rd stops parry working? is this true or a meme

Knight 855 2314
  • 10 Mar
 Pred

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

You play in 3rd person tho.
being in 3rd stops parry working? is this true or a meme

Things are more readable in 3rd person, also footwork / range management is better.

123 265

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

You play in 3rd person tho.
being in 3rd stops parry working? is this true or a meme

Things are more readable in 3rd person, also footwork / range management is better.

i really dont want to be using 1st person just so i can parry reliably ): i will get motion sick. but oh well, i dont take the game too seriously anyway. im more interested in the modding tools, whenever i can get those.

ateotd it would be nice to encounter some more variety in battles, other than the dominant usage of 2hand weapons

2318 4631
  • 10 Mar
 Maci

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
with the current state of the game, even pre-parry is not enough to parry even some 2h attacks. so why draw the line at 1 hand weapons? make it balanced

I find the speed (0,550 - 0,650 windups) of most 2h attacks manageable (obviously except Qstaff. And Maul, which has no animations) and you have to also take into account that 2h attacks are more telegraphed and it's much easier to see what is going on with them. 0,525 second windups (Bastard Sword territory) is more or less where you start getting free hits from your weapon and there is a number of faster attacks in the game, going down to 0,450 and these happen to be on 1h weapons.

so its not the speed which is a problem, its the consistency of parry. because i actually have no problem parrying 1h weapons, i find it no more difficult than parrying 2h. so it must be an issue with parry

You play in 3rd person tho.
being in 3rd stops parry working? is this true or a meme

Things are more readable in 3rd person, also footwork / range management is better.

i really dont want to be using 1st person just so i can parry reliably ): i will get motion sick. but oh well, i dont take the game too seriously anyway. im more interested in the modding tools, whenever i can get those.

ateotd it would be nice to encounter some more variety in battles, other than the dominant usage of 2hand weapons

No you won't you snowflake.
Set the FoV according to your Screen size.

837 1446

@SherbershLemel said:

@Pred said:

@SherbershLemel said:
in general all 1 handed weapons need speeding up

lol wut

1h weapons are already way too fast and need some major re-thinking on what their role is supposed to be. Weapon balance's overall "framework" was for the most part transplanted from Chiv, but the changes made didn't compensate enough for FHF and we ended up with 1h being just 1v1 cheese that you are not using right if you are not spamming as hard as you can at avery opportunity.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the current crop of players, many of which already racked up over 1000 hours, is different than an average person who will play this game. If you just walk up to a guy who plays Mordhau every day for 3 hours, stab him in the face two times in a row and he simply fails to parry both times, something is probably not right here and you can imagine how the game will play out in general pop after release.

yes, its clear theres an issue with the core game. as it is indeed a mirror of chivalry. there should be equal incentive to use all weapons. if 1 hand weapons shouldnt have more of a speed advantage, then what should they get?

Might seem offtopic but please read all the way through.

Parry is massively wide, who even successfully side stabs but for rapier and estoc users? Which have the best speed, reach and damage for stabs while also getting killer morphs... You'd think short spear would be good at sidestabs but it's not fast enough and parry is too wide... anyways,

Parry should be tighter and perhaps tied directly to weapon size. Sounds like a 1h weapon nerf because they get smaller parries... but this is where shields come into play and widen your parry and what not... Shield is in a bad spot right now but it should be a direct upgrade to 1h and hopefully they revert some shield mechanics/stats to make it an upgrade again.

What I'm getting at, is that 1h with a shield should be as good as 2h in terms of both stamina and offense. 1h + Shield getting the better defensive and stamina negation end with no timing factors while 2h gets the better overall offense/reach and stamina damage end and relies primarily on timing based defense. 1h on it's own has the smallest parry box and is weak to both timing and locational deceptions... making it best served as a last resort secondary weapon or the absolute best purchasable after spending points on archery.

Ofcourse, shields will have to be fixed and reverted to their former states (patch 14) and alot of people like an easy parry (c'mon parry is super wide, even a slight width reduction can't be that bad) but this would have been the best way to implement 1h vs 2h balance and the role of shields.