Mordhau

Shields on Release

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Shields in their current state rely too much on arbitrary stamina nerfs to balance them and these arbitrary nerfs force users to adopt a very passive playstyle that can drag duels out until someone literally decides they're gonna risk a gamble.

This is exacerbated by the fact that shields, by nature, only pair with low range 1handers and any armor worn shortens lunge/drag length... also 1 handers require stamina to morph/feint with and are easy to matrix and force misses against.... and Stamina on hit doesn't give enough stamina to pay off these deficits... and you better not even bother trying to chamber. Shields are also incredibly weak to feint-to-kick and the only counter is constant back stepping even with initiative. A single kick means the fight is pretty much over for the shield user. Personally a kick also gives my opponent a free hit since I have high ping (the whole reason I use a shield anwyays) and can't get a shield up in time despite the most obvious follow up.

On the other hand shield is absolutely invincible. You cannot drag around it without doing something absolutely absurd.. meaning you have to resort to stamina warefare... baiting misses, kicking and hard reading. Whatever you do don't chamber against a shield.

Shields add an artificial skill ceiling similar to feints. Average players and below can do absolutely nothing to a shield user while even a mediocre one is free to feint /morph to victory against better players. Meanwhile, in an advanced duel yard, a good player can take a shield up against equally skilled players or even less skilled players and it will be useless if the lesser player reads at least a few feints/morphs and it's game over for the shield if he gets kicked... Remember a shield user's 1h morph/feints are difficult to read but are predicted by the simple fact that he didn't riposte. The no-delay on hitting shield makes it brainless easy to pressure a shield user into spamming ripostes.

Shields aren't even very good in 1vX since they come down on hit and get kicked into corners as if it were patch 13 or something.

SOLUTION:

  1. Bring skill back into using shield. Make shield parry box accurate to shield model once again.
    -A beginner can learn the basics of defense by having to be accurate and it will still extend his life slightly when fighting and an expert can take it to the duelyard just as well... a shield is only as good as the user and is about his/her personal ability to read attacks as opposed to mitigating fake,arbitrary and artificial mechanics such as kick stun on shield or extra stamina taxes.
    -This also makes fighting and beating shield much more consistent and more intuitive than spamming until hes out of stamina or kicking him to magically paralyze him. You need skill to beat a shield just as you need skill to use a shield. The attacker has to hit around the shield and mask his attacks, play mind games etc to do so. Just like in parry vs parry but now location is the deciding factor instead of timing.
  2. Add stamina negation to shields again, based on shield size. Bigger shields = more stamina negation but at the cost of points.
    -Stamina on hit isn't high enough to justify shield's extra costs when you factor in the stamina cost of morphs, feints, chambers, misses, parries and feint-to-parries. It's just not feasible when you're playing against good players who read and can simply spam their way to victory against a shield's current stamina weakness. Shields realistically give you a stamina edge that would slightly even out against 2h (but still leave you at the disadvantage just like before, when they were high.)
    -Cheaper shields stam out easier and heavier shields become more useful for soaking up hits in teamplay or holding objectives but cost more points and thus get smaller 1handers, less perks and or less armor.
  3. Remove raise/lower delay.
    -C'mon this just makes it feel like you have a brick tied to your every movement instead of a multipurpose military tool meant to increase your survival odds and fight more opponents.
  4. Make it so shields stay up even when you've been hit like before.
    -This is so the shield stays up when fighting multiple opponents and doesn't get you simultaneously hit by 3 weapons because a smaller weapon side stabbed your now smaller parry box.

I want to see shields done properly on release, requiring skill to use and skill to defeat.. None of this arbitrary, fake stuff we've seen lately. Stamina warefare with an invincible wall has been a failure, the kicking to death meta was a failure. If kick stun sucked in general melee why would it be any better fighting shield users? In Chivalry, we saw how kick stun only separated day 1 players from pros, where noobs got kick raped and pros would never get kicked and would even bait kicks for a free hit of their own, we can do so much better. Patch 14 was the most balanced and intuitive shields ever were and I want to see us go back to those intuitive balances.

Duke 986 1381
  • 15 Feb '19
 PadanFain

for a second there I was worried this was just an unnecessary new topic made for shield discussion glad I was wrong

Knight 766 3329
  • 15 Feb '19
 Mittsies

oh boy here we go again

of course you don't even reference the other shield threads or quote the ideas of anyone else. you don't want to have an actual discussion, you just came here to wave your opinion around. no mention of removing held-block, or having different shields fulfill unique roles, etc. you just put "SOLUTION" then list 4 shallow suggestions that are barely explained. you don't contrast your ideas against the dozens of other possibilities out there, you just state your ideas as if they are the only sensible changes and the others don't even deserve to be mentioned.

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I was tempted to add a snippet about avoiding discussion of things totally unfeasible such as "removing held block" for all shields, stamina cost for longer shield raises, sweet spots and entirely new mechanics that cannot be added into the game this late and Devs have specifically said are not feasible anyways... but I thought that would be unnecessary for obvious reasons.

Was hoping to leave behind such clutter in the previous threads. Also Point 2 discusses use of shields of different situations, obviously buckler/targe would be best for dueling but would fall short in 1vX... It's also been rumored Buckler is going to have parry as opposed to held block... Which is feasible since held block is very important against archery and buckler would be useless against archers anyways. Kite would hold door ways well, viking/heater would be the middle ground for dueling, team play and smaller shields would be for duels or added survival of archers, etc.

The other ideas don't deserve to be mentioned. The only things left to discuss are parry size, stamina cost, kick stun, shield raise/lower delays, turncap and other statistics already in the game...

Either like my post or post why you think it's bad idea and what statistics should be changed instead... or why you think shields should stay exactly where they are. Or just ignore altogether, it's not like you use shield. Just please don't pollute with ideas already declared unfeasible by the devs.

Knight 54 64
  • 15 Feb '19
 fmay2123

How about decrease the backpedal speed more while the shield is up to make it even easier to kick them?

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@fmay2123 said:
How about decrease the backpedal speed more while the shield is up to make it even easier to kick them?

This continues to encourage a passive playstyle based on back pedaling... now they have to sprint sideways or turn they're back to run. We need to stop trying to make the shield a trap and instead make it a tool for fighting with just like normal parry. It's like you people want to automatically win against a shield user because all shield users are just bad and deserve to be kicked/spammed to death regardless of their skill level or yours.

I believe accurate parry angles will make fighting and beating a shield intuitive while still giving beginners an extra few seconds of life AND also giving Pros a tool that is only as good as they're own skill. I like shields (used to, currently shield disgusts me) because I have high ping and find blocking where an attack is going much more intuitive than blocking when like with normal parry. Should be a matter of choice like it was in Patch14 where shields didn't give you a free victory, you still had to read attacks. Just like the attacker had to hit around the shield instead of mindless riposte stamina warfare and feint kicking... defeats the purpose of a shield when feint-to kick ends the duel as it currently does.

201 403
  • 15 Feb '19
 serbish

one thing i love about mordhaus shields is that they move up and down depending where you look, a cool extension of that would be to let it cover the head more if you look up enough. this would be useful for when youre going upstairs or through a archway and u got archers perched up looking down you waiting to get easy headshot

Knight 54 64
  • 15 Feb '19
 fmay2123

If we want shields to be a tool for learning the game, decreasing the backpedal speed while holding up a block will discourage them from holding up a block when they don't need to. This encourages them to read attacks more instead of just holding up their block to defend against any action that would cause them to panic parry.

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@SherbershLemel said:
one thing i love about mordhaus shields is that they move up and down depending where you look, a cool extension of that would be to let it cover the head more if you look up enough. this would be useful for when youre going upstairs or through a archway and u got archers perched up looking down you waiting to get easy headshot

Shields already do this :)

367 341
  • 16 Feb '19
 Peacerer

Make shields great again.

239 289
  • 25 Mar '19
 idiotgod

communicate