Mordhau

Hordemode Design Suggestions and Ideas

Duke 17 40
  • 4 Feb
 Doshling

Making this thread to go over people’s preferences and ideas when it comes to horde games . I generally like the genre, so here's my thoughts on the various possible design choices.

Toolbox - This weapon fits perfectly into the gamemode, the only question is do people need to buy it, or does everyone have one all the time Killing Floor welder style. Maybe perks or a significant money investment makes using the toolbox a specialty, leaving a player weaker but more defense oriented.

Infinite waves or Finite - The big hitters for these categories is good old Call of Duty Zombies, and Killing Floor. Both of these examples worked in their own ways, and I have good memories of both. Call of Duty Zombie’s infinite waves inspired lots of creativity and teamwork to push later waves and gave the side game a sense of purpose. But it was just a side attraction to a concept that Killing Floor stood entirely upon. A finite end wave feels more respectful of the players time and concisely presents an experience that could otherwise drag on. A middle ground could be a certain wave yielding max rewards, afterwards players are given an option to leave or continue for bragging rights or a publicly tracked record.

Set Spawns or Guidelines - One of my biggest peeves of Dawn of War 2 Retribution’s Last Stand and Titanfall 2’s Frontier Defense horde mode style games are set spawn points. No matter what wave one spawned these guys here, those guys there. It can start to feel mechanical real fast, and can very quickly murder replayability especially if there's not a lot of maps or other variations. I vastly prefer Killing Floor’s guidelines, where even if the wave or the difficulty gives you a strong idea of what’s coming, you don’t know exactly how many or where.

Defend a Object or Stay Alive - Do you want to see your players losing because they didn’t defend the mcguffin all the AI are trying to beat in, or do you want the AI to only desire player murder and possibly be kited through the map. Personally I prefer only defending my team, but with the buildable defenses the toolbox presents there could be merit in defending a fixed object.

Player Account Progression - If at all possible, the mode should give progress towards player accounts the same way any deathmatch or frontline match would, be that experience or gold. Noone wants to come out of a co-op gamemode of any length and feel they wasted their time not playing more standard modes to progress their account. It doesn’t need to be an insane amount of progression, but should be something.

Combat Issue - The big issue here is making a horde mode work in a game with parrying, chambering and clashing. If we were to make the simplest shift and shove the current bot AI into a horde game, I’d say they block too much. What do you do from there, lower the block chance and have it be random chance how far a strike plows through a horde before one of them decides to parry? While it would probably work, random chance kinda sucks there.

My best idea to fix this is removing the ability to block from the standard weakest mob, and instead up their health and have them focus on attacking. This would still leave the player engaging the mob and parrying the occasional attack from anyone they don’t flinch (might have some issue with longer melee weapons being used by players.) Then from that point save the ability to parry for stronger enemies or make other mobs who are specifically designed to do so.

Alternatively you could just keep the number of mobs in the horde mode low, so their tankiness doesn’t cause you to be overrun. But that’s not very horde mode. Another fix of this could be...

Powerups, Upgrades and Skills - A creative addition made with minimal effort to Nazi Zombies, they were a great idea there. Maybe upgrading a weapon Mann Vs Machine style or drinking ale that gives you two times the damage could solve some gameplay hangups in bots parrying. It’d also be pretty cool to buy the perks we use in the other modes, and more effective ones like specific weapon damage could always be added.

Mordhau is in a good place though, and has a lot of weapons to choose from like Killing Floor, whose entire model of match progression was players saving up to buy better weapons, not upgrading them. (Until the recent update to Killing Floor 2, no idea how that went over with the community.)

Archers and Classes - Archers have shit DPS, this could be fixed with a class, buyable perks, or just completely rebalancing ranged weapons in the horde mode. On the subject of classes I find them heretical given Mordhau’s customization, and would rather see any potential classes mulched down into buyable perks.

Overarching Hordemode Player Progression - Not every game has it, but it works in some situations. Killing Floor had classes, Titanfall 2 had a list of ten or so stacking upgrades for every titan that you slowly unlocked by playing their horde mode, that only applied to the horde mode. Some people find gradually increasing power attractive, but it can create power gaps between friends and players who all need a different difficulty to provide a challenge at their current progression. Others might find it grindy, and it may cause higher, funner difficulties to be locked behind the overarching progression.

Bosses- I’d say whether it’s minibosses between infinite waves or one big one at a set end, there’s a lot to gain from including them, even if they’re just scaled up lads with big hammers.

Player count - From my point of view, an open ended mode like this can potentially accommodate a very flexible number of people by increasing the number of enemies and or enemy health with each extra person. There is a slight logistical downside of being too flexible however. Like what max player counts would most servers run? Or is the map going to be cramped with too many people running around?

Conscript 173 445
  • 5 Feb
 Shovonem

I wanted to make a thread about horde mode. However, since you've made it already I am going to add a few things:

People usually suggest horde modes that go like this:

  1. Fighting a lot of hordes in a town with waves.
  2. Defending castle against hordes
  3. Having a VIP player that others will protect from hordes and take him somewhere safe.

I think the combination of all them could make it solid. We could even throw in capture points.

So here's how I suggest it:

First the CO-OP team spawn in open field/town outside of a castle. Fight the hordes. After fighting enough of them (could add in waves here), it would be possible to open the castle gate.

  1. However, when the gate start working, there will be more hordes and the players have to be near the gate(slowly capturing
    that point).

  2. After the gate is open, all players go inside castle area and fight more hordes. They fight their way up to the castle and capture the castle and kill their King(Boss).

  3. Next objective is to defend the castle from hordes that comes in waves.

  4. On the final objective, one player becomes VIP(player with most points) and all players need to take him somewhere safe through backdoor of castle. If someone is playing solo, he has to defend himself.

During the whole 'questline' there will be horses, catapults, ballistas, repairable/breakable doors & walls that can give the CO-OP team advantage.

The hordes could also have distinctive classes of hordes (so that you can identify the 'creature' as soon as you see it) like:

  • Peasent class with peasent weapons

  • Annoying light armor class, uses dodge perk frequently

  • One type with weak light armor but uses flesh wound.

  • Full armored tank with shield

  • Archer

  • Naked caveman class that uses throwing rocks.

  • Rare Cavalry class with lance that are quite scary.

  • Naked meme class that uses fist with the perk that gives more fist damage.

  • Very fast suicide horde that comes at the player with fire Bomb, set the ground on fire and dies.

Duke 5451 12801
  • 5 Feb
 Jax — Community Manager

To address some of these:

  • Toolbox is bought and is considered a higher-end pickup, costs a decent amount.
  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).
  • There are multiple spawn areas for bots, which are randomized. On larger waves they will spawn at multiple points.
  • Stay alive - since it's melee positioning for this is really important, as using toolbox and fire can cut down a ton of enemies.
  • Bot AI has been massively improved, they can even duck your swings now.
  • Gold / XP gain will exist although I would assume we're going to make it a little bit lower than comparable time in PVP.
  • no classes or perks, just buy armor and weapons. armor also doesn't slow you down in either Horde or BR, just a straight upgrade.
  • persistence will simply be game wide on official servers - additionally in terms of BR/horde there will be a separate customization menu that allows you to customize what you'll look like when you pick up any armor combination.
  • can't scale players due to some backend tech with the animations and tracers, but the tomato horde is scarier than a boss.
  • looking at ~6 players for coop. Would rather push the limit on enemy counts than on allies.
2360 4786
  • 5 Feb
 Maci

@Jax said:

  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).

No fuck off pls I don't want le xddd forum memes in the game, it'd kill every bit of atmosphere and immersion

Duke 5451 12801
  • 6 Feb
 Jax — Community Manager

it's fun man

embrace the meme or be incinerated by it

176 440
  • 6 Feb
 Koda

I'd prefer infinite waves myself. The whole mode is a buildup of how long you can last and when it just sends it feels like I wasted my time doing all of this stuff. I want every match to end with me dying to a horde in horde mode :(

Knight 712 3043
  • 6 Feb
 Mittsies

@Maci said:

@Jax said:

  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).

No fuck off pls I don't want le xddd forum memes in the game, it'd kill every bit of atmosphere and immersion

atmosphere? mordhau is a video game not a fancy restaurant you absolute roleplayer.

2360 4786
  • 6 Feb
 Maci

@Mittsies said:

@Maci said:

@Jax said:

  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).

No fuck off pls I don't want le xddd forum memes in the game, it'd kill every bit of atmosphere and immersion

atmosphere? mordhau is a video game not a fancy restaurant you absolute roleplayer.

Don't you have some pony sex to animate

Knight 685 1846

@Jax said:
To address some of these:

  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).

Please add a patchie invasion themed one !

Knight 3099 7178
  • 7 Feb
 Punzybobo

@Maci said:

@Mittsies said:

@Maci said:

@Jax said:

  • Finite waves. Scales up in terms of strength and number of bots with some special waves too (like tomato firepot yeetwave).

No fuck off pls I don't want le xddd forum memes in the game, it'd kill every bit of atmosphere and immersion

atmosphere? mordhau is a video game not a fancy restaurant you absolute roleplayer.

Don't you have some pony sex to animate

Holy sh*t! That was absolutely based and absolutely redpilled bro.

Count 3905 8198

need patchie horde

Mercenary 222 552
  • 8 Feb
 Izıl

Zombies plz

2360 4786
 Maci

@SirZombie

Knight 30 65

@TheDankestMeme said:
need patchie horde

This is actually an interesting concept. I would love to see "specialty waves" like this at certain wave numbers. Sorry if this has already been mentioned somewhere else.

Here's an example:

  • Wave 1-4 = peasants with makeshift tools
  • Wave 5 = special wave with just patchie outfit guys that throw firebombs
  • Wave 6-9 = lightly armored and armed guys
  • Wave 10 = a wave of unarmored guys, all equipped with a maul
  • Wave 11-14 "regular" style waves again etc.

Shit like that.. What would be even cooler, is if (with the release of the modding SDK) we could make our own, custom waves with all sorts of custom variables like gear & equipment, perks, ai skills & behaviours, number of combatants and even different groups of said variables in the waves themselves (like a wave of X patchie fire throwing guys, and Y maul guys)

Some other ideas I'm just throwing around for "specialty waves"

  • an inordinately large wave of unarmed, unarmored guys with the fistfighting perk and maybe dodge or something
  • a wave of regular attackers, with a small backup of guys that throw smoke (possibly annoying)
  • a small wave of elite warriors with good armor/weapons & seymour style reactions
  • a wave of guys with lots of 1h axes and throwing axes
Duke 5451 12801
  • 10 Feb
 Jax — Community Manager

pretty much how it is apoc