Mordhau

Longsword

373 399

I feel like the LS has way too many advantages over all other weapons (besides the broken ev), thats because of the weapon stats. You can instahit with it and drag it like a GS. I dont see the point in having both of these, its like an all in one package. Next patch weapons with 550ms like GS will be reduced to 525, and I think LS release should be reduced -25 more then the GS, then there would be a reason to play with GS again.. Also BS has 475ms release so LS would be an in between weapon and it would make more sense.

GS 525ms
LS 500ms
BS 475ms

This seems fair to me. What do u guys think about it ?

Knight 1718 2851
  • 4 Feb
 Runagate

gs is 550 release my guy

Conscript 308 689

gaysword hehe

Knight 31 95
  • 4 Feb
 owen

pakged anemones

Knight 956 2609
  • 4 Feb
 Frise

Longsword is too easy to play with imo. Release is so long you don't need to try at all to do delays.

373 399

@Runagate said:
gs is 550 release my guy

I forgot to mention I was talking about next patch where 550 weapons will be 525

Knight 1718 2851
  • 4 Feb
 Runagate

That is a welcome change

22 32
  • 4 Feb
 Vaygr

Who else thinks that CIA agents complaining about medieval weaponry are doing a poor job? Its does make the GS a bit superfluous though.

Knight 680 1748
 Pred

@JasonBourne said:
I feel like the LS has way too many advantages over all other weapons

Dunno, doesn't seem like it has that much going on in comparison to all the cancer-tier weapons (which is majority). It does a passable job across the board and this is its only real strength.

It's kinda fast, but nowhere near free-hits zero-effort fast like cheaper ones, while the supposed "slow" weapons are not really slow at all either.

Not really long at all (BS and Rapier have longer range on stab).

Weak damage, can't even 2-shot T2 torso.

It's the same issue as in Chiv, where a weapon on edges of speed/damage/draggability balance gave you the best results.

453 737

@Pred said:

@JasonBourne said:
I feel like the LS has way too many advantages over all other weapons

Dunno, doesn't seem like it has that much going on in comparison to all the cancer-tier weapons (which is majority). It does a passable job across the board and this is its only real strength.

It's kinda fast, but nowhere near free-hits zero-effort fast like cheaper ones, while the supposed "slow" weapons are not really slow at all either.

Not really long at all (BS and Rapier have longer range on stab).

Weak damage, can't even 2-shot T2 torso.

It's the same issue as in Chiv, where a weapon on edges of speed/damage/draggability balance gave you the best results.

BS/Rapier have longer stabs? Are you absolutely 100% sure? You prolly know more about weapon stats than I would but I find that hard to believe. Longsword is longer and it's slower so it can float longer and farther. I just don't see how BS, being too fast to drag out and shorter than LS can get a longer stab... Rapier has the same length of BS but shorter stab drag so it's at best, gonna be slightly shorter than BS.... right?

Knight 680 1748
 Pred

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Pred said:

@JasonBourne said:
I feel like the LS has way too many advantages over all other weapons

Dunno, doesn't seem like it has that much going on in comparison to all the cancer-tier weapons (which is majority). It does a passable job across the board and this is its only real strength.

It's kinda fast, but nowhere near free-hits zero-effort fast like cheaper ones, while the supposed "slow" weapons are not really slow at all either.

Not really long at all (BS and Rapier have longer range on stab).

Weak damage, can't even 2-shot T2 torso.

It's the same issue as in Chiv, where a weapon on edges of speed/damage/draggability balance gave you the best results.

BS/Rapier have longer stabs? Are you absolutely 100% sure? You prolly know more about weapon stats than I would but I find that hard to believe. Longsword is longer and it's slower so it can float longer and farther. I just don't see how BS, being too fast to drag out and shorter than LS can get a longer stab... Rapier has the same length of BS but shorter stab drag so it's at best, gonna be slightly shorter than BS.... right?

LS is longer but 1H stab has more range than 2H. This is when stationary - didn't check it while moving forward, as it would also largely depend on your armor/footspeed.

22 63

longsord should be 1 handable with shield

Knight 680 1748
  • 4 Feb
 Pred

I just checked and LS stab has barely, BARELY longer reach than Baxe and Eveningstar, almost non-existent.

So when it comes to stabbing you will only have advantage against Maul, War Axe, Messer, Mace + the 1-3pt weapons (except Qstaff), which all have much faster wind up and will outgamble you ez.

Knight 956 2609
  • 4 Feb
 Frise

@SherbershLemel said:
longsord should be 1 handable with shield

That's what bastard sword is for

161 180
 idiotgod

@Pred said:
I just checked and LS stab has barely, BARELY longer reach than Baxe and Eveningstar, almost non-existent.

The difference between the range of the LS and the Zwei might as well be non-existent for all the difference weapon length actually makes in combat.

3 8
  • 4 Feb
 Rhike

Let me address the LS situation myself. I do not believe Jason's point was clear enough, sorry.

To balance Longsword, do not compare it to other sword weapons, but rather it individually.

I believe that this perfect ratio of 550 ms startup and 550 ms release is the best ratio in the game hands down, and this should not be allowed to exist in the game. The "contenders" are ultrafast weapons, stamwar weapons, and Eveningstar which stamwars nicely and two shots. Everything else, literally everything else falls short to the Longsword. Don't believe me? Go and duel against longsword with various weapons for hours on end. Longsword's average stam negation and drain, moderate reach, good stab and disgusting 550/550 beats every other option in a fair comparison AND actual play.

The thing I want you to consider is that simply describing Longsword as the "middle-ground safe option" is completely FALSE, because it's not middle-ground, it's ALL-around.
If there is a weapon that doesn't lose stamwars, has reach, has mad accels, mad drags, doesn't sacrifice stab, 3 shot kills, why would I use anything else? People are literally being experimentative right now, hence the weapon variety. But trust me, no one will ever NOT use LS/ES if nothing gets changed in competitive play. Whole teams of nothing but those two weps.

A suggestion for a fix: Large release weapons should be kept slow. There's a lot of questionable balance going around, with Executioner Sword having less release than Longsword, etc etc. Lower the release so it stops having mad, effortless drags.


So, with overall balance out of the way, LET'S compare Longsword to BS and GS.

GS has +1 negation, +1 drain, more damage to all armor (mostly, if not the same HTK against T3), a bit more reach. Most other statistics are if not the same then worse, like speed.
BS has faster attacks but sacrifices a slash HTK to T3, also having a bit less release.

I don't see myself paying 2 more for a GS unless I need a few centimetres harshly. And going 4 pts (BS) into 5 pts (LS) is a huge, massive difference. LS will win against BS in a duel because BS is still in LS mad accel territory. Others may disagree - I've had the same experience fighting BS as I had with LS in terms of accel speed. It's nowhere as different as GS to LS, or SS to AS.

161 180
  • 4 Feb
 idiotgod

I bet It's cause they designed the game around the longsword and then balanced everything else by making it faster, slower, longer, shorter etc.

373 399

@idiotgod said:
I bet It's cause they designed the game around the longsword and then balanced everything else by making it faster, slower, longer, shorter etc.

  • the longsword skin
Knight 3037 5893
 Bodkin

Tbh I think most of it is people just wanting to use swords because people have some kind of fetish for them so they go out of their way to make them competitive. When the game first dropped, LS was 4htk on slash to T3 along with most sword-style weapons being weak vs heavy unless they were on the bigger side.

Now there's really not much difference between a "heavy" weapon and quicker swords, unless the weapon in question is one of the "really heavy" ones like ES/Maul

Like I don't mean to bitch but this is undeniable. Like against medium armour, these heavier weapons like big polearms (bardiche/halberd/etc) have a substantial advantage for sure, but you don't see much medium torso, or non-heavy torso in general, and its honestly weird for something like LS to be 3htk medium AND heavy on slash. Like its weird there's no htk jump.

I know that for the most part the damage values are balanced though, my only gripe is with LS's long drags and maneuverability combination. Its a barely slower than 1h-speed weapon with 3htk on slash and stab, with the floatiest drags in the game. It's just a bit bonkers.

And for anyone thinking that there must be some logic behind a lot of the balance decisions, let me show this:

wut.png

wut2.PNG

A lot of the decisions seem to be made on this arbitrary idea of what something is "supposed" to do rather than what it "should" do based on its price and the weapons it competes with in that price range. I am not trying be an asshole to crush but some of this shit makes 0 logical sense. Cleaver is the best 1h 1pt weapon hands down, apparently because it is "supposed" to be. Lmao why? Seriously Why? It's the same size as the dagger without any hand protection, which the dagger does have, but is somehow better at parrying? Lmao is this also why the 2pt Axe can't 1htk naked head but the Cleaver can? lol

Things like this are why Messer and LS are floaty as fuck at 5pts with good speed

Knight 1718 2851
  • 5 Feb
 Runagate

"The 2pt weapons are much heavier than the rapier"

lol rapiers aren't particularly light swords

but it has thin blade hurr so must be light