Mordhau

Accel/Decel meta and the lack of freedom.

Knight 1227 3613
  • 11 Feb
 Frise

It seems that a lot of potentially good ideas get discarded because they feel bad (or sound like they would) to veteran testers with thousands of hours of playing one way. Of course it does, you're comparing 10 hours to 5000. When I went from 240 to binds after 300 hours it felt like shit at first.

The self proclaimed big boys are fine with animations being extremely hard to read for anyone without previous melee experience, but proposing that parrying should require aim is blasphemy.

We're stuck to a game that is just chivalry with good netcode and less depth and I've already learned to live with it.

Knight 837 850
  • 11 Feb
 afiNity

Isn't it ironic? Mordhau has like 4 times the combat mechanics that Chivalry has and it still lacks depth.

2315 4628
  • 4
  • 11 Feb
 Maci

@afiNity said:
Isn't it ironic? Mordhau has like 4 times the combat mechanics that Chivalry has and it still lacks depth.

It may has on paper, but in practice it has like 2 or 3 working playstyles all based on obscuring your animation ad absurdum, which is even worse than Chivalry, because you had at least 2 viable playstyles per class there.

The reason for this is that "normal" combat just doesn't work anymore once people figured out how to parry somewhat reliably, because that's the only opening existing in combat as intended by the devs. There is no way to punish anything at all outside of a mistimed parry. Missed an attack? Just combo lamoe, and even if you don't, you'll be able to parry the punish no problem. Read a morph? Too bad because it literally has no weaknesses and you can't punish it at all. Read a feint? You may be able to get a hit in with the carving knife, otherwise bad luck kiddo.

And then we also have those weird, almost pointless mechanics like clashing and chambering. Clashing sounds super cool but it quite frankly never happens. Chambering puts the one who chambers at a disadvantage currently, so why bother using it instead of a parry, which is cheaper and lets you riposte from more angles. Morphs are just a better feint with often unreadable animations, Hyper Armor is just big fucking trash and makes no sense whatsoever, all the situational buffs and debuffs that piled up to fix deeper oversights which you can't read up on anywhere and so on and so on.

Obviously it doesn't help that there is plenty of generally outright broken stuff, like insiders, which are pretty much considered meta at this point. Also you still have the problem of general animation readability, and often no way to distinguish between an accel and a drag with weapons seemingly starting out in your face and then going back in time. A proper long and wide parry could fix, or at least help combating this problem, but I have yet to ever see the long parry work.

Duke 58 156
  • 11 Feb
 Lumi

Regarding CFTP animations, what if there is a tiny delay between the feint and the parry? Just enough to smooth out the animation, and maybe discourage bad behavior.

Parry box changing with weapon size. Yes please. That said, smaller, faster weapons should also be easier to get around the big guns. Not sure how that would work with a box format.

If small weapons get some kind of boost around parries, then they'll need a more substantial penalty versus when parrying heavy weapons. I'm thinking beyond a higher stamina cost and more like parry breaking and taking a reduced amount of damage, and no flinch so you can at least attempt to get initiative back or get away.

Visually it would work like the multi-hit animation we already have. Big weapon hits the little dagger in parry, catches for a moment, then continues into the defender for 25% damage.

835 1444

@Lumi said:
Regarding CFTP animations, what if there is a tiny delay between the feint and the parry? Just enough to smooth out the animation, and maybe discourage bad behavior.

Parry box changing with weapon size. Yes please. That said, smaller, faster weapons should also be easier to get around the big guns. Not sure how that would work with a box format.

If small weapons get some kind of boost around parries, then they'll need a more substantial penalty versus when parrying heavy weapons. I'm thinking beyond a higher stamina cost and more like parry breaking and taking a reduced amount of damage, and no flinch so you can at least attempt to get initiative back or get away.

Visually it would work like the multi-hit animation we already have. Big weapon hits the little dagger in parry, catches for a moment, then continues into the defender for 25% damage.

Small weapons are very quick and can needle dick around parry alone. Just aim where they're not looking. This is ofcourse predictable at high level play BUT...

Quick weapons also have very good morphs/feints. Feint left then slash right or do the same with a morph. No need for any new "additions" or mechanics to balance them. 1pt weapons are balanced by reach, cheap point cost and improved defense when paired with shield. 2h gets better reach, better drags/morphs but are slower and have less rewarding feints. 1h+shield would be equal to 2h of similar point cost when all is said and done and stamina management is even. No need for new mechanics to balance the different parry sizes reflecting weapon sizes.

But they made the meta 95% about timing, gave an absurd lunge to attacks and then made shields stamina whores that are absolutely invincible against some players but totally useless against better players... another arbitrary skill ceiling separating ok players from really good players, similar to feint reading. The meta is braindead drags/insiders in duels, which is no different than Chivalry... and about cross-map ripostes fed by an obnoxious lunge that turns team play into a ping pong machine. That's also on fire because why not add fire pots.

1047 5982
  • 2
  • 11 Feb
 crushed — Art

@Frise said:
ok now make stab releases long again please

Stab release curve has been adjusted already, it is a slight stab drag buff and makes the end of the animation more consistent at hitting enemies. Will be in the next patch.

Knight 3216 6541
  • 1
  • 11 Feb
 Bodkin

@conny said:
Make chamber the only option in certain weapon matchups. Why does dagger have to be able to parry any weapon? Wanna fight with the big boys, get a descent weapon. Just a thought, ravish me

inb4 we see even more shields lmao

No but in all seriousness there's no reason why it couldn't parry. Smaller parrybox sure, but not even being able to parry is a little odd.

Honestly what I find weirder than being able to parry a maul with a dagger is the fact that you can move the maul around quick enough, in facehug distance, to parry someone shanking you with dagger.

There's a lot of unrealistic things in this game that need to stay for gameplay. Suspension of disbelief

Conscript 74 106
  • 12 Feb
 KineticWolf

@Pred said:
Btw, look at this not-a-riposte from 475ms no-animation windup weapon:

https://streamable.com/jg0w5

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

Wait, that isn't a feint?

66 116
  • 12 Feb
 conny

@Bodkin said:

@conny said:
Make chamber the only option in certain weapon matchups. Why does dagger have to be able to parry any weapon? Wanna fight with the big boys, get a descent weapon. Just a thought, ravish me

inb4 we see even more shields lmao

No but in all seriousness there's no reason why it couldn't parry. Smaller parrybox sure, but not even being able to parry is a little odd.

Honestly what I find weirder than being able to parry a maul with a dagger is the fact that you can move the maul around quick enough, in facehug distance, to parry someone shanking you with dagger.

There's a lot of unrealistic things in this game that need to stay for gameplay. Suspension of disbelief

Moving the handle around quickly wouldnt be very hard as long as you pivot, but yeah i guess parry with dagger should stay but be hard and drain alot of stamina

Knight 855 2310
  • 12 Feb
 Pred

@KineticWolf said:

@Pred said:
Btw, look at this not-a-riposte from 475ms no-animation windup weapon:

https://streamable.com/jg0w5

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

Wait, that isn't a feint?

It's a morph, stab -> Slash. If you don't have the game, a morph is when you start an attack and during a moprh window you change it to a different attack, while feint is when you cancel the first attack and start a new one. So, they're almost the same thing, morph is just a slightly different feint, but y'know.... technically it's something else.

The issue here however is that you can't tell if the opponent is doing a stab riposte (which is instant and wouldn't allow him to feint or morph) or not (which allows him to feint/morph and delay the hit). So as the defender you are just guessing.

Knight 1227 3613
  • 12 Feb
 Frise

is just l2p issue, noobs love it

177 206
  • 1
  • 12 Feb
 idiotgod

@conny said:

@Bodkin said:

@conny said:
Make chamber the only option in certain weapon matchups. Why does dagger have to be able to parry any weapon? Wanna fight with the big boys, get a descent weapon. Just a thought, ravish me

inb4 we see even more shields lmao

No but in all seriousness there's no reason why it couldn't parry. Smaller parrybox sure, but not even being able to parry is a little odd.

Honestly what I find weirder than being able to parry a maul with a dagger is the fact that you can move the maul around quick enough, in facehug distance, to parry someone shanking you with dagger.

There's a lot of unrealistic things in this game that need to stay for gameplay. Suspension of disbelief

Moving the handle around quickly wouldnt be very hard as long as you pivot, but yeah i guess parry with dagger should stay but be hard and drain alot of stamina

I was thinking it would be cool if you could still chamber when out of stamina but you still lose weapon if you try to parry. But since chambers are just totally retarded and stupid this idea falls flat on its face immediately.

Knight 691 2840
  • 12 Feb
 Mittsies

@Frise said:
is just l2p issue, noobs love it

look who's talking :^)

92 302
  • 1
  • 12 Feb
 chaquator

shut up good christ no one asked you

Knight 2026 3648
  • 12 Feb
 Runagate

yeah jesus shut up!

Knight 691 2840
  • 13 Feb
 Mittsies

please don't say such things about our lord and savior