Mordhau

Accel/Decel meta and the lack of freedom.

92 302
  • 9 Feb
 chaquator

@Frise said:
ok now make stab releases long again please

unequivocally this

Knight 855 2311
  • 9 Feb
 Pred

Btw, look at this not-a-riposte from 475ms no-animation windup weapon:

https://streamable.com/jg0w5

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

835 1444

That clip is the story of my life but what's really offensive is how quick that knife was up to parry.

Why have archer limits (and less freedom) when you can just make bows cost stamina and make weapon switch from bow slower. Archers are only mildly annoying... until it's time for melee and you're best drag/accel isn't good enough but their weapon doesn't take any effort to morph/feint/cheese with and you're weakened from fighting and slowed down by armor.

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

Knight 3216 6541
  • 9 Feb
 Bodkin

Weapon swap out of bow is already very slow unless you use cleaver/dagger

Thats also an arming sword not a knife

Baron 1551 2066

@crushed said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

It was changed in a way so there is more vertical directional parry play but in an obvious way, so for example someone staring at the ground is now much easier to punish by just overheading their head/shoulder, someone staring at the sky has much more exposed legs. But this is only for the cases involving strong movements with the spine, simply looking forward for example still has the same vertical parry height so it's not a return of the leg hit meta.

Directional parry plays on the side are also more viable now, parry box depth towards character was increased (to make parry more consistent & help with insiders) - but parry box width was reduced significantly so it is much easier to get around on the sides.

Wait wait wait hold the phone... Did you consult Giru about this? How is he supposed to be skilled if he can't just turn around and parry and block an attack above him while he was looking down? Or what if it is to one of his sides slightly? HOW is he supposed to SKILLFULLY turn around and randomly parry and skillfully get lucky, if YOU keep fucking with the most skillful aspect of this skill based game? Being skill parry.

835 1444

I called it a knife but im 99.99% sure that was a short sword.

177 206
 idiotgod

@Pred said:
Btw, look at this not-a-riposte from 475ms no-animation windup weapon:

https://streamable.com/jg0w5

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

wow you parry his arrow and he is able to switch in time for the riposte... disgusting when you can see the axe entering his head as his sword is still by his side. Then NOPE.

I honestly hate the way that looks more than anything. It's why I think CFTP looks so bad. I am expecting a satisfying chop sound then I hear a "ting" and then their weapon 'appears out of thin air' and it's like "yur bad" and I'm like "no this is bad"

I wanted to see his head go off.

Knight 855 2311
 Pred

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
That clip is the story of my life but what's really offensive is how quick that knife was up to parry.

Why have archer limits (and less freedom) when you can just make bows cost stamina and make weapon switch from bow slower. Archers are only mildly annoying... until it's time for melee and you're best drag/accel isn't good enough but their weapon doesn't take any effort to morph/feint/cheese with and you're weakened from fighting and slowed down by armor.

Just git gud and read ayyyy lmao

Yeah, making it an even playing field by having to switch to Short Sword or Dagger yourself is, uhhhhh.... doesn't make much sense.

That's how people parry it:

https://streamable.com/u7fl5

It seems like devs are trying to balance Chivalry in Mordhau - "everything has to be viable by itself, otherwise people will never use lesser weapons", forgetting there is a point system to do that. Yes, it was a problem in Chiv where you would never be disarmed and weapons were assigned to classes, so there was never any point in using Falchion or Bearded Axe when you could've gone with Messer or Maul, but this is no longer the case.

If you spend all your points on armor and Baxe then you should be in a major disadvantage when you get disarmed and have to switch to 1p weapon, not suddenly stiop having to worry about defense and go head first for top kek tornado spam.

@idiotgod said:
I honestly hate the way that looks more than anything. It's why I think CFTP looks so bad.

If you know people can immediately FTP then you are just expecting to drag around it or get some stamina advantage and if the devs want it like that then whatever, there are worse things. But super fucking sonic riposte being undistinguishable from a non-riposte you can morph and drag is terrible.

Baron 1551 2066

Parry shouldn't be something you can't react to...

239 825
  • 4
  • 10 Feb
 Cswic

@Pred said:

It seems like devs are trying to balance Chivalry in Mordhau - "everything has to be viable by itself, otherwise people will never use lesser weapons", forgetting there is a point system to do that. Yes, it was a problem in Chiv where you would never be disarmed and weapons were assigned to classes, so there was never any point in using Falchion or Bearded Axe when you could've gone with Messer or Maul, but this is no longer the case.

If you spend all your points on armor and Baxe then you should be in a major disadvantage when you get disarmed and have to switch to 1p weapon, not suddenly stiop having to worry about defense and go head first for top kek tornado spam.

The possible solution to this is to make weapons worse on a base level and then have perks or proficiencies that you select to bring them back to or better than their current state.

We'll keep it simple for now for arguments sake and have 1hand, 2hand, heavy weapon, and ranged proficiency.
Heavy weapon would be anything from maul and estar to zwei and halberd. Rest are self explanatory.

So now each loadout can pick 1 proficiency. You make a typical 3/3/x loadout with longsword w/ shortsword backup and pick 2hand proficiency. Your shortsword will be absolute dogshit in terms of stam properties and windups or release, but your 2hander will be comparable to the current longsword.

Main problem is if that would fit with the devs vision of the game, which it may not since it is a bit more RPG-ish than competitive melee slasher. It'd also be a bit of work because the "nerfed" versions of the weapons would need to all be semi balanced out too. Also late in the game to try out such a change too.

I think this'd be a step in the right direction though of having everything viable overall, but you are limited to picking what you want viable at the current time.

177 206
  • 10 Feb
 idiotgod

adjust the Parry box relative to the size and shape of weapon model.

The shorter 1-3 point weapons are now harder to use than the 6+ point weapons.

239 825
  • 1
  • 10 Feb
 Cswic

@idiotgod said:
adjust the Parry box relative to the size and shape of weapon model.

The shorter 1-3 point weapons are now harder to use than the 6+ point weapons.

Sure, but pred's issue is more specifically about their offense which this change would not change. Instead it makes it easier to justify the weapons having these fast, nearly unblockable on 80+ ping, attacks because now you can say "well their parry is worse so that's why they need those attacks".

They've already made the 1 pt weapons have worse parry stam negation (exception is cleaver) and gain only 5 stam on hit instead of 10. This change feels like it isn't enough when you use the weapon as a backup, and then also too much if you attempt to use the 1pters as main weapons. no one wins.

177 206
  • 10 Feb
 idiotgod

Well altering stamina values just shifts the game to a stamina meta where my idea would just shift the game to a more directional meta. Both do little to solve any of the games other problems aside from attempting to actually balance points.

Personally I assume stamina is the first thing they look to in balancing, not because it is the best for gameplay, but cause it's the easiest thing to test and alter. But maybe a lot of players enjoy the stamina war and this is by design what the fuck do i know I'm an literally idiot

Knight 3216 6541
  • 10 Feb
 Bodkin

@idiotgod said:
adjust the Parry box relative to the size and shape of weapon model.

The shorter 1-3 point weapons are now harder to use than the 6+ point weapons.

Not giving my opinion on the matter but they said they had it like this in slasher but decided it felt shitty and made 1h weapons even more inferior to 2h

835 1444

To be fair 1h is supposed to be shitter than 2h... but shield bridges the gap in terms of defense vs offense, 2h having best offense and shield+1h having best defense and both being equal in stamina management. Plain 1 point 1h as backup giving the worst of defense, offense and stamina but it's only for back up, tight spaces or if you're really fucking good.

But they switched the meta to timing and fucked shields up the ass, no lube and Idk what to tell you.

177 206
  • 3
  • 11 Feb
 idiotgod

@Bodkin said:

@idiotgod said:
adjust the Parry box relative to the size and shape of weapon model.

The shorter 1-3 point weapons are now harder to use than the 6+ point weapons.

Not giving my opinion on the matter but they said they had it like this in slasher but decided it felt shitty

I'd like to know about in what ways "it felt shitty".
You don't have to make all different sizes of parry box, that's just one idea. You can just make 2 basic ones, one for 1h and one for 2h weapons. You can display the parry size information along with all of the other essential weapon info nubs will never read if they ever want to understand why blocking with smaller weapons "feels shitty". (aka why it is just slightly more challenging)

and made 1h weapons even more inferior to 2h

That's the point though.

I'll wait for a dev to explain it to me, cause I feel like this idea makes sense. Why should a 12 inch dagger be as ez to parry with as a 40 inch Longsword?

78 194
  • 11 Feb
 Seseau

One thing I always found ridiculous in Chiv, and truly hoped not to see in Mordhau, is people being able to parry blows from a huge axe with a tiny dagger or a shortsword.

Knight 2026 3648
  • 11 Feb
 Runagate

How would you balance that though

66 116
  • 11 Feb
 conny

Make chamber the only option in certain weapon matchups. Why does dagger have to be able to parry any weapon? Wanna fight with the big boys, get a descent weapon. Just a thought, ravish me