Mordhau

Accel/Decel meta and the lack of freedom.

962 1591

Despite the sword actually passing through you? We're asking for a better, more intuitive meta that makes logical sense and for fights that look like fights. We want to see the stuff we saw in Dev Blog 2 or even patch 14 where parry was tighter.

"RuN INto tHeiR SwORD And It WIlL MagICalLY PaSs ThrU YoU."

Duke 2264 3999
 Huggles

Chivalry had way better directional play honestly, with regards to side stabs and neck hits/waterfalls. Also jump stabs. Waterfalls exist in mordhau but they are significantly harder to perform and imho actually feel more broken than chiv when you get hit, lmao.

With mordhau the parry is too mobile and once you are in release with your wep it feels like you have no real control, which is prob good aesthetically but feels like shit. Meanwhile, you have a huge windup and the beginning of animation which is super vague and you can do whatever the fuck and it allows people to track everyone very easily.


The game seems extremely morph feint heavy for my taste atm, strongest move by far being the chamber morph feint with added body manipulation and it sucks cus chamber so easy to do now.

So basically, little is telegraphed until last moment and there is not a ton of control over your swings compared to chivalry.

Duels are just very stale and boring now imho with wayyy to much emphasis on stamina warfare. I preferred the game a lot more during the experimental patches around 17 honestly. Felt like there was more variety in the playstyles and tactics. Also patch 14 seemed to have a lot more emphasis on the role of footwork and timing which allowed more offensive and defensive variety which is also gone now.


imho game needs more variety overall. It seems like basically everyone plays the same way now and it kinda sucks. There's a few people who try to break the mold like gay fish and I really appreciate people like him but people tend to play sort of the same now. There def feels like the game really hard pushes a "right" way to play and it feels boring. At least in duels.

Duke 2264 3999
  • 3 Feb
 Huggles

@GucciLoafers said:
If it's an inside hit you can run into them and it wont hit you...

Ya, this is very good for forcing misses to waste their stam. The issue with this tactic tho is the counter is for them to just fake the accel and then go for the super delay, which is very easy to do because the first few moments of any windup gives u 0 useful information and they have total control.

Duke 2264 3999
  • 3 Feb
 Huggles

@Soulcatcher said:
"I cannot cancel my riposte, side stab/overhead, go under, over or around my opponents parry. I can only fully commit to my riposte while doing something totally un-intuitive such as dragging or insta hitting."

I really don't play as much as I should, but maybe why I don't kinda stems from this. Just feels slow paced, sure some weapons are pretty darn quick, and you have to have a keen eye and good reaction times to parry some things, but in regards to footwork, I don't know... I just feel like a slow clunky bag of rocks trying to stay out of range/matrix/get around parrys etc. Basically just have to stand there and accel/decell/read feints and morphs, chamber something if you like chambers, maybe move backwards and forwards a bit.

As I say I haven't played in a while but that's how it kinda felt.

In regards to ripostes, well... what else do you do with it? you can just stand there looking dead at your opponent and ripose, he'll fuckin block it piece of piss. You can accel or decell and he'll have to watch your movements to decide when to parry. If you are given the ability to cancel your riposte, basically a riposte feint.... fuckin'... is that really better?

What else do you want to do with it? there is nothing really wrong with the concept, I feel you're just forced to rely on that to get most hits because some of the other mechanics aren't really well tuned, or maybe they are? maybe this is how the devs want it? Beats me, I find Chiv more enjoyable tbh. (Not implying Mordhau is "bad") Chambers? maybe I don't have good reaction times, or more likely it's just a case of spending hundreds/thousands of hours like in Chiv doing something before you actually feel they are a viable tool you can consistently use, but like I can't stand them, so I just naturally revert to how I played in Chiv, footwork, going around parries, accels/decells. But again, bag of rocks. I'm drunk.

Chiv is just plan more broken/glitchy tbh, but I do feel like it does quite a few things better.

The debate is lost tho cus chiv simply has some crucial things that make the game bad.

  1. reverses
  2. lack of first hit flinch
  3. horrible netcode
  4. huge parry lockout
  5. shitty spammable unavoidable free initiative kick
  6. garbage shield
  7. butt parries
  8. vanguard charge
  9. prob a ton more I forgot

If it were not for these things tho I might actually prefer chiv. Granted mordhau does have some cool stuff that I would really miss. I think clashes are like the most brilliant and fun addition to the melee genre.

I have very a mixed opinion on morphing and chambers and I think the basic attack animations are actually less useful than in chiv.


Also, just general feedback. For all the talk from @crush saying how floaty melee games can be and how terrible that is, I actually think mordhau suffers a lot from this. Hits feel much less impactful than in chiv and mordhau has just always felt so artificial in terms of the physics/ragdolling/hitting stuff/etc. It's just the disconnect with how real everything looks but how fake everything sounds and feels is HUGE.

Duke 5451 12801
  • 3 Feb
 Jax — Community Manager

next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

209 269
  • 3 Feb
 idiotgod

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

This is your guys' last chance to experiment a little bit. Go for a revolution!

153 305

i do not particularly enjoy this games melee so i seem to be hanging back with a crossbow and arming sword. some feints are readable, some arent. with a 240 system + swing manipualtion, its very hard to pinpoint which exactly animations have poor telegraphing. overall, animations are nice and smooth, so this game is leagues ahead of chivalry. however...

i hope you devs will come to embrace the fact this game is chivalry 2, and if you try to seperate mordhau from chivalry too much, the game will only become more and more unnatural to those who play it. as you are trying to build a game upon the foundations of a different game.

no matter what restrictions you put to movement, or any other procedural element of the game, people will find ways around it in order to win. regardless of what you intend for how they are supposed to play. you should find a good balance eventually, but at the moment this is not it.

Knight 901 911
  • 3 Feb
 afiNity

I think in general the game became better since the alpha when it comes to reaction-based combat, mainly cause they buffed footwork at some point.
But still, as sad as it is, I agree that Chivalry is still better in terms of movement, footwork and blocks.
As broken Chivalry is, I had more fun with it than I currently have with Mordhau.
For some reason the devs thought that it would be good to balance the game solely around reaction-based mechanics and that's where we are now.
I'm sure the game will be fun, especially with the new gamemodes but if they don't drastically change the balancing of the core combat mechanics I don't think that there will be a big competitive community.

962 1591

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

25 41
  • 4 Feb
 machinegod

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

That sounds great, could you elaborate a little on this? I'm curious on what changes will exactly entail this.

Duke 59 165
  • 5 Feb
 Lumi

There's a couple different issues here. Can't feint or morph ripostes, and parries are based on timing. Chamber morph matching gone and chambers more expensive than parry may also be exacerbating the issue, as players are more inclined to parry/riposte now.

Being locked into a riposte isn't necessarily a bad thing, but with timing based parry you have no way around the parry by changing your angle so it's just accel or drag.

OP's observation of freedom having been removed seems correct. What to do about it?

You could provide more options other than parry/riposte by making chambers more viable, but the community seems to like the changes made there so that's not a great option.

You could add options within the parry/riposte, such as feints and morphs. We had feints, and it was cancer, but morphs could work.

The best solution would be to change parries.

Our current system is almost 100% timing. For the defender, it's only a question of reading/guessing when you will get hit, and for the attacker your options are your very best accel or drag, anything else will be read and blocked.

We had a positional based system before and that was also frustrating. For the defender, misreading by an inch means you get hit, and for the attacker the only way to land a hit was to do weird contortions.

Have we ever tried anything in-between? I think if the parry box was tightened up and parry duration extended, several options for riposte strategy would open up.

Knight 890 2463
  • 5 Feb
 Pred

Look at this sick location-based, triple-misdirection attack

https://streamable.com/6y4wk

11111111111.JPG

Knight 1232 3661
  • 5 Feb
 Frise

bUt iF i cAn'T tUrN aROunD aNd ParRY BlinDLy hOw WilL i dO SkiLlfUl 1vX???!?!?!?!

209 269
  • 5 Feb
 idiotgod

@Lumi said:
We had a positional based system before and that was also frustrating. For the defender, misreading by an inch means you get hit, and for the attacker the only way to land a hit was to do weird contortions.

Ya. it's called "precision" and the thing you need to utilize it, and defend against it, is "skill".

Game currently doesn't require or possess either of these so nubs can be idiots and get away with it.

The game isn't fun to learn anyway so I donno wtf they doin

1068 6072
 crushed — Art

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

It was changed in a way so there is more vertical directional parry play but in an obvious way, so for example someone staring at the ground is now much easier to punish by just overheading their head/shoulder, someone staring at the sky has much more exposed legs. But this is only for the cases involving strong movements with the spine, simply looking forward for example still has the same vertical parry height so it's not a return of the leg hit meta.

Directional parry plays on the side are also more viable now, parry box depth towards character was increased (to make parry more consistent & help with insiders) - but parry box width was reduced significantly so it is much easier to get around on the sides.

962 1591

@crushed said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

It was changed in a way so there is more vertical directional parry play but in an obvious way, so for example someone staring at the ground is now much easier to punish by just overheading their head/shoulder, someone staring at the sky has much more exposed legs. But this is only for the cases involving strong movements with the spine, simply looking forward for example still has the same vertical parry height so it's not a return of the leg hit meta.

Directional parry plays on the side are also more viable now, parry box depth towards character was increased (to make parry more consistent & help with insiders) - but parry box width was reduced significantly so it is much easier to get around on the sides.

Good news, all! Thankyou.

Knight 1232 3661
  • 8 Feb
 Frise

ok now make stab releases long again please

Knight 2119 3832
  • 8 Feb
 Runagate

@crushed said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

It was changed in a way so there is more vertical directional parry play but in an obvious way, so for example someone staring at the ground is now much easier to punish by just overheading their head/shoulder, someone staring at the sky has much more exposed legs. But this is only for the cases involving strong movements with the spine, simply looking forward for example still has the same vertical parry height so it's not a return of the leg hit meta.

Directional parry plays on the side are also more viable now, parry box depth towards character was increased (to make parry more consistent & help with insiders) - but parry box width was reduced significantly so it is much easier to get around on the sides.

Sounds really good. I wish we could get more info like this on things being developed.

209 269
  • 8 Feb
 idiotgod

@crushed said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@Jax said:
next patch will add some more locational play into the game. won't be anything revolutionary, but vertical mixups should be more viable

I am happy to hear this, thankyou. Not sure what you mean by "vertical mixups" but I imagine this means head to foot hits and vice versa? I would hope to see shoulder drags and side stabs become more viable as well.

It was changed in a way so there is more vertical directional parry play but in an obvious way, so for example someone staring at the ground is now much easier to punish by just overheading their head/shoulder, someone staring at the sky has much more exposed legs. But this is only for the cases involving strong movements with the spine, simply looking forward for example still has the same vertical parry height so it's not a return of the leg hit meta.

Directional parry plays on the side are also more viable now, parry box depth towards character was increased (to make parry more consistent & help with insiders) - but parry box width was reduced significantly so it is much easier to get around on the sides.

Now remove parry

Knight 98 258
 GAYFISH

@Huggles said:
imho game needs more variety overall. It seems like basically everyone plays the same way now and it kinda sucks. There's a few people who try to break the mold like gay fish and I really appreciate people like him but people tend to play sort of the same now. There def feels like the game really hard pushes a "right" way to play and it feels boring. At least in duels.

I appreciate ur luv <3
And def agree that this game pushes the big ook morph feint meta way too hard.