Mordhau

(Poll) - Should 240 input be locked to 6 angles?

Baron 1551 2066

Mordhau 2020

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Knight 69 151

240, should stay 240. No pre-animated shit.

Knight 69 151

I get it that people don't like 240, But If you don't like it, don't force us into pre-determined angles. You guys have your binds, so use them. Stop trying to mess with the 240 peeps.

Duke 5416 12495
  • 10 Jan
 Jax — Community Manager

6 unique angles would still use the same tech since there's only 2 animations. there's no reason to artificially limit the 240 system when we wouldn't make 6 unique animations for each weapon set

Knight 855 2310
  • 10 Jan
 Pred

@Jax said:
there's no reason to artificially limit the 240 system when we wouldn't make 6 unique animations for each weapon set

...and why wouldn't you?

Baron 1551 2066

@Pred said:

@Jax said:
there's no reason to artificially limit the 240 system when we wouldn't make 6 unique animations for each weapon set

...and why wouldn't you?

Already animated 240

Knight 855 2310
  • 2
  • 10 Jan
 Pred

And about the whole 240 angles - how many degrees you need to actually see the difference? Is 45 degrees that much different from 39?

As far as I'm concerned, on binds you have slash, overhead an uppercut and 240 system just gives you two additional in-between attacks - slrhead and splurpt, which give you really nothing except some confusion points when you spaz out your torso and an opponent needs to figure out which angle he should use to chamber. The rest of the in-between angles is even more irrelevant. Getting rid of it is a marginal price to pay for all the options in unique animations, turncaps or damage values that 6 standalone angles would open up.

Baron 1551 2066

They are setting people up for disappointment tbh. Bragging about having 240 different angles of attack implies the angle matters. Not only is there no difference between blocking a 39 vs a 40 degree attack. There is basically no difference between blocking a 40 and a 220 degree attack.

Knight 691 2840
  • 1
  • 12 Jan
 Mittsies

Personally I find that the extra 234 angles do not provide a significant advantage; but they do provide some advantage, no matter how microscopic, and that bothers me. For example: if there was something that decreased your attack windup by 1ms, a virtually unnoticeable difference in 99%+ of scenarios, I'd still strongly argue that it should be removed. Being able to use additional angles not possible with binds alone provides an advantage, no matter how irrelevant the majority of players consider it (self-included), and that's not good for the game. At the very least, it's a matter of inconsistency.

Mercenary 1012 1850

@Mittsies said:
Personally I find that the extra 234 angles do not provide a significant advantage; but they do provide some advantage, no matter how microscopic, and that bothers me. For example: if there was something that decreased your attack windup by 1ms, a virtually unnoticeable difference in 99%+ of scenarios, I'd still strongly argue that it should be removed. Being able to use additional angles not possible with binds alone provides an advantage, no matter how irrelevant the majority of players consider it (self-included), and that's not good for the game. At the very least, it's a matter of inconsistency.

Except using binds turns out to be better than 240 in practice, so taking away the one tiny little advantage of 240 would just be digging its grave a little deeper and have no other effect than to further bolster the bind meta.

In other words, please don't nerf 240's ONLY redeeming quality.

Baron 1551 2066

I don't see 240 as a problem because "it offers alternate advantages" that we don't even know for sure exist, I see it as a problem because if 240 was to be removed the devs would have to focus on binds and make them better, since now that we know the game plays better with them. Experiment: 12 binds. 4 binds. different timings and all that shit.

I am not completely happy with 240 OR binds atm, they are both sloppy. Focus on the good one and make it better.

I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses, I doubt crush wanted a game with such limited fov when he played Chiv at like 150. I doubt marox wanted to make a game devoid of directional based attacks. I doubt a broken control scheme and flawed mechanics are what they had in mind for a competitive slasher.

Is this really the game they want to play? or is it becoming the game they think the masses of nubs will want to play at first glance?

Knight 855 2310
  • 1
  • 13 Jan
 Pred

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Conscript 4458 6121
  • 1
  • 13 Jan
 vanguard

@Pred said:

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Well, its a cool feature if you are not a competitive player imho. It is also good marketing oportunity, as it is a intereting imput mode that is like Mount and Blade fighting system 2.0 mixed with chivalry, which technically is melee paradise if you think about it.

I think its pretty cool to leave it for casuals, but it must be made clear that if you want to go competitive, which I believe is what a big part of mordhau buyers will want to, binds are a more fitting solution, although you can be competitive with the 240 if you practice untill your dick fall off.

Knight 855 2310
  • 1
  • 13 Jan
 Pred

@vanguard said:

@Pred said:

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Well, its a cool feature if you are not a competitive player imho. It is also good marketing oportunity, as it is a intereting imput mode that is like Mount and Blade fighting system 2.0 mixed with chivalry, which technically is melee paradise if you think about it.

I think its pretty cool to leave it for casuals, but it must be made clear that if you want to go competitive, which I believe is what a big part of mordhau buyers will want to, binds are a more fitting solution, although you can be competitive with the 240 if you practice untill your dick fall off.

Dunno, I mostly see frustration potential in it, "240 degrees of attack" sounds much better than it really is. Especially when they will google "how to be better in Mordhau" and the first advice they'll get will be "use the better control set".

Conscript 4458 6121
  • 13 Jan
 vanguard

@Pred said:

@vanguard said:

@Pred said:

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Well, its a cool feature if you are not a competitive player imho. It is also good marketing oportunity, as it is a intereting imput mode that is like Mount and Blade fighting system 2.0 mixed with chivalry, which technically is melee paradise if you think about it.

I think its pretty cool to leave it for casuals, but it must be made clear that if you want to go competitive, which I believe is what a big part of mordhau buyers will want to, binds are a more fitting solution, although you can be competitive with the 240 if you practice untill your dick fall off.

Dunno, I mostly see frustration potential in it, "240 degrees of attack" sounds much better than it really is. Especially when they will google "how to be better in Mordhau" and the first advice they'll get will be "use the better control set".

Yeah thats the real issue, might be interesting for the casual person, but if said person suddenly wants to go competitive, it will be very fucky indeed

Knight 691 2840
  • 13 Jan
 Mittsies

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Except using binds turns out to be better than 240 in practice, so taking away the one tiny little advantage of 240 would just be digging its grave a little deeper and have no other effect than to further bolster the bind meta.

In other words, please don't nerf 240's ONLY redeeming quality.

240's redeeming quality is that it's an alternative way to input your attacks by moving your mouse instead of needing 6 separate strike binds. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.

Duke 2264 3985
  • 2
  • 13 Jan
 Huggles

I think that the implementation of 240 in the first place was a mistake, but as it is rn it's just kinda useless as opposed to harmful because even if we limit it to the 6 attacks the animations are still garbage.

Ideally, animations are totally overhauled to be more distinct and unique with the perfect balance between jerky/aggressive and pleasant looking, but I doubt that will happen because of the amount of effort that went into 240 so far.

It's just that initial windup that is so vague and dumb in the game. Mordhau can be hard to read for the wrong reasons a lot of times.

Animations are just such a huge thing to be bad in a melee game and it really affects mordhau and has since the beginning. Animations have been the #1 complaint by everyone from vets to noobs since day 1. It has improved significantly but they're still not good. I think this is mainly because the team was focused more on the blending so it can be aesthetically pleasing as opposed to the most readable.

175 436
  • 13 Jan
 Koda

I like 240 and have been using it since day 1.

Knight 837 850
  • 13 Jan
 afiNity

Everyone, try the m.AngleAttacksWithMovement command. For me and some others it's by far the best solution for directional swings. I'm biased because I played Jedi Knight for so long which uses the same scheme but it's really an elegant mechanic.

Mercenary 1012 1850

@Mittsies said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Except using binds turns out to be better than 240 in practice, so taking away the one tiny little advantage of 240 would just be digging its grave a little deeper and have no other effect than to further bolster the bind meta.

In other words, please don't nerf 240's ONLY redeeming quality.

240's redeeming quality is that it's an alternative way to input your attacks by moving your mouse instead of needing 6 separate strike binds. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.

NO YOURE WRONG REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE