Mordhau

When you get upset at Mordhau's animations....just remember...

Count 449 1186
  • 4
  • 17 Dec '18
 Hadeus

it could be a whole lot WORSE...

Thank you @Devs for not allowing backspins in Mordhau - however, I still argue for the removal of the current ability to jump drag during RELEASE.

The problem with jump drags is this - We read an attacks' windup while on the ground, yet the opponent may jump during any point of the swing, even during their early release -> release.

I've brought this up many times, but it's always dismissed.
Restricting jump input during early release & release of an attack will still allow for jump drags, but would remove the ability to float the drag to an unreadable state (mid release).

Does anyone honestly want fights looking like this?

Thank you rob for demonstrating <3. This is some old footage, but they haven't changed.

324 864
  • 17 Dec '18
 Xatrian

Minus reverses, I find the animations easier to read in Chivalry.

Knight 925 2541
  • 17 Dec '18
 Pred

Chiv has much better animations, for both attacks and (especially) player movement, it's backwings dealing damage what fucks the game visually.

@Hadeus said:
Does anyone honestly want fights looking like this?

lmao, this is terrible.

Knight 138 303
  • 17 Dec '18
 Sir Boring

Chivalry only has so many set animations. Slash, alt slash, lunge, overhead, alt overhead. You fight against only so many attacks and weapon types, as well as different combos. You can easily learn to read all of these.

Although all Mordhau weapons swing and lunge the same way, they all have various speeds, windups and ranges. As well they can all drag, even if they are a faster weapon. You have overheads that turn into slashes during the end of their release, plus a much more limited field of view where attacks end outside of your view.

Then you have morphs, which still need some work, seeing as for some weapons I can still turn an overhead into a slash, causing the weapon to phase through my head, looking downright goofy. Morphs make everything really hard to read, especially with faster weapons, so it really does become a guessing game. Just like with Chivalry though, you learn people's fighting styles and they do become predictable, so you can fight against them.

Mordhau's animations are far smoother and do look nicer, but some attacks are definitely hard to read. Attacks include when they underhand behind their shield after they block you with it, or when they wind up a slash with a shield on their back, turning it into a stab when you can't see it hidden behind their shield. Plus with the more fluid movement you can bob your character about and it does look really weird and distracting.

The jump drag definitely needs to go though. There's no way to read that, only guess that they're going to do it.

4 2
  • 18 Dec '18
 repent

much easier to defend in mordhau than chiv

Duke 5477 13081
  • 18 Dec '18
 Jax — Community Manager

We're looking into removing jump-drags.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 1
  • 18 Dec '18
 Frise

I hope ya'll find a way to address this issue without punishing jumps in general to the ground. Jumping over footdrags and jump-stabs are fun.

Knight 528 3376
  • 1
  • 18 Dec '18
 rob_owner

i played chiv a few nights ago, if you people really want i can probably compile clips of bad animations from chiv even though i already made a montage a while ago. If I then do the same for Mordhau, surly one will appear to look worse, but even then, it may just be a matter of preference for some people, just like how some guys like sopping vaginas and others like raging cocks, and some dont like either, while others may partake of both.

I realized how spoiled I was when a 140 ping messer knight not only had an easier time hit trading me, but had more range on all of their attacks because of their high ping. Every time I got backswung I thought "Oh yea backswings exist". I killed him by stabbing a lot, i'd see his parry go up, and then he'd take damage, and sometimes i pressed Q, crazy. I also at a point thought the chivalry animations were, at the very least, more distinct. (Now I think it was the 4k hours of chiv against the 400 hours of mord talking.) When a parry happens, you instantly snap to idle animation. That sounds good right? Oh whats that? The idle animation looks like riposte animation most of the times? And on 2handed swords you just need to sprint to make it look extremely similar to stab windup? And for 1handers you just need to stare at the floor? And for halberd you just gently sprint at them? Isnt it crazy how thats never getting changed, and this strat exists to a degree in mordhau, and i've reported it, and its getting toned down. I remember that night I played chiv, 3 nights to this day, I saw an overhead riposte. It came up over the enemy head, I looked at it with my own two eyes, and yes, I pressed of the right mouse button. My arms moved, they moved to a parry, and then I died. Even in chivalry, I can tell when it goes around, and I can tell when it doesnt. When you parry and have no turncap, your parry is desyncing and it wont work if someone hits it. When you see an enemy go through recovery animation from idle, it may mean they were parrying on their screen and if you hit them, they would just eat the hit because their parry isnt working.

Someone else could probably make this exact thread except instead of showing off bad anims they can show off how the parry spoils you. (high ping seems to, for the most part, make your inputs not work as often) You can parry so late, the only server with people gives me 80 ping and im amazed sometimes when I read or parry something, so much so that I nearly climax the times I play on 40-50 ping and parry. I rarely see parry go up and not work unless I can tell something went around or over. I can probably find a video showing off what the chiv equivalent of this is

If you look at the player model when its dead, you can actually tell when the enemy hit around the parry. Totally obvious if its something you pay attention to, and if you want to avoid that, you just need to move as if youre trying to incur the enemy backswinging your parry, you also have to flickshot the camera at the sky either during or before parry, theres no vertical turncap. If you want to be badass, you could try to aim at the tip of their weapon, sometimes it might pass through you and you'll ass parry, but in chiv, whatever side a weapon's stab comes from is actually less able to parry. I can record footage of that for you, its pretty funny. Its also why I wouldnt recommend smaller parrybox where you can move your arms around it when you appear to be on the person's screen, it usually does not look good. Maybe laxer turncap for parry in combination with it would be fine.

At any rate, there is no "red parry" and parry works even less on 80 ping. If there were no backswings, people would just maximize the abuse you can do with just ordinary lookdown accels and delay/acceled riposte since riposte window is so massive in chiv and the later/earlier you do it the later/earlier your attack will come out, and since the game is fundamentally a maggot filled turd, it would still be atrocious, not to mention the feints which are hilarious and never going to be changed. Those comp mod boys are doing the best they can.

We had to tone down handlehits on swords when we first made mercs. If you play vanilla and go longsword, you can literally put the windup inside the enemy head, crouch last second, and its going to be like a 1hander attack. You counter it by staring at the sky so they cant headshot you, and even then you can probably get away with microfeinting it or floating the enemy with it or just fucking backswinging them. Wizardish was the first nerd to start spamming lookdowns with longsword, and everyone thought he was a hacker because he was pretty much a noob. No one thought the game was as brainless and broken as just doing one accel over and over (i guess the people that wrote the bad reviews did) but you could totally make a playstyle out of that, for duels at least.The duels just going to be a tug of war for trying to get in the enemy face first and doing one of the many unreadable treats and not getting gambled because after a while you'll likely never actually mess up, accidentally doing a readable mixup.

Theres arguably some unreadable shit in mordhau at the moment. I reported it. Its going to be changed, and if its not enough, i'll keep reporting it and also probably finding more.

I dont know how many hours the people who prefer chiv animations have or what their environment to that conclusion was. If you scrape away all the bugs, and if youre not inexperienced, you actually have to play nice on purpose if you want the game to look as good as it can. Even then, it still looks rough, and it will never get any better.

Conscript 4546 6279
  • 18 Dec '18
 vanguard

Oh my god Rob these videos are GORE, I'm having ptsd here delet pls. Chivalry is pretty broken tbh, if you people think subtle drags are a pain to read, try reading zweihander slash backswings, it looks almost like the person will go for a delay up until the point you get hit out of the fucking nowhere. Its so cheap and ridiculously easy to pull off lmao

Knight 15 49
  • 18 Dec '18
 MonoXtr

@rob_owner said:
i played chiv a few nights ago, if you people really want i can probably compile clips of bad animations from chiv even though i already made a montage a while ago. If I then do the same for Mordhau, surly one will appear to look worse, but even then, it may just be a matter of preference for some people, just like how some guys like sopping vaginas and others like raging cocks, and some dont like either, while others may partake of both.

I realized how spoiled I was when a 140 ping messer knight not only had an easier time hit trading me, but had more range on all of their attacks because of their high ping. Every time I got backswung I thought "Oh yea backswings exist". I killed him by stabbing a lot, i'd see his parry go up, and then he'd take damage, and sometimes i pressed Q, crazy. I also at a point thought the chivalry animations were, at the very least, more distinct. (Now I think it was the 4k hours of chiv against the 400 hours of mord talking.) When a parry happens, you instantly snap to idle animation. That sounds good right? Oh whats that? The idle animation looks like riposte animation most of the times? And on 2handed swords you just need to sprint to make it look extremely similar to stab windup? And for 1handers you just need to stare at the floor? And for halberd you just gently sprint at them? Isnt it crazy how thats never getting changed, and this strat exists to a degree in mordhau, and i've reported it, and its getting toned down. I remember that night I played chiv, 3 nights to this day, I saw an overhead riposte. It came up over the enemy head, I looked at it with my own two eyes, and yes, I pressed of the right mouse button. My arms moved, they moved to a parry, and then I died. Even in chivalry, I can tell when it goes around, and I can tell when it doesnt. When you parry and have no turncap, your parry is desyncing and it wont work if someone hits it. When you see an enemy go through recovery animation from idle, it may mean they were parrying on their screen and if you hit them, they would just eat the hit because their parry isnt working.

Someone else could probably make this exact thread except instead of showing off bad anims they can show off how the parry spoils you. (high ping seems to, for the most part, make your inputs not work as often) You can parry so late, the only server with people gives me 80 ping and im amazed sometimes when I read or parry something, so much so that I nearly climax the times I play on 40-50 ping and parry. I rarely see parry go up and not work unless I can tell something went around or over. I can probably find a video showing off what the chiv equivalent of this is

If you look at the player model when its dead, you can actually tell when the enemy hit around the parry. Totally obvious if its something you pay attention to, and if you want to avoid that, you just need to move as if youre trying to incur the enemy backswinging your parry, you also have to flickshot the camera at the sky either during or before parry, theres no vertical turncap. If you want to be badass, you could try to aim at the tip of their weapon, sometimes it might pass through you and you'll ass parry, but in chiv, whatever side a weapon's stab comes from is actually less able to parry. I can record footage of that for you, its pretty funny. Its also why I wouldnt recommend smaller parrybox where you can move your arms around it when you appear to be on the person's screen, it usually does not look good. Maybe laxer turncap for parry in combination with it would be fine.

At any rate, there is no "red parry" and parry works even less on 80 ping. If there were no backswings, people would just maximize the abuse you can do with just ordinary lookdown accels and delay/acceled riposte since riposte window is so massive in chiv and the later/earlier you do it the later/earlier your attack will come out, and since the game is fundamentally a maggot filled turd, it would still be atrocious, not to mention the feints which are hilarious and never going to be changed. Those comp mod boys are doing the best they can.

We had to tone down handlehits on swords when we first made mercs. If you play vanilla and go longsword, you can literally put the windup inside the enemy head, crouch last second, and its going to be like a 1hander attack. You counter it by staring at the sky so they cant headshot you, and even then you can probably get away with microfeinting it or floating the enemy with it or just fucking backswinging them. Wizardish was the first nerd to start spamming lookdowns with longsword, and everyone thought he was a hacker because he was pretty much a noob. No one thought the game was as brainless and broken as just doing one accel over and over (i guess the people that wrote the bad reviews did) but you could totally make a playstyle out of that, for duels at least.The duels just going to be a tug of war for trying to get in the enemy face first and doing one of the many unreadable treats and not getting gambled because after a while you'll likely never actually mess up, accidentally doing a readable mixup.

Theres arguably some unreadable shit in mordhau at the moment. I reported it. Its going to be changed, and if its not enough, i'll keep reporting it and also probably finding more.

I dont know how many hours the people who prefer chiv animations have or what their environment to that conclusion was. If you scrape away all the bugs, and if youre not inexperienced, you actually have to play nice on purpose if you want the game to look as good as it can. Even then, it still looks rough, and it will never get any better.

Keep on being you Rob. Your testing and feedback is honestly invaluable and please feel free to hit me up whenever you want to test something, I greatly enjoyed the last time. I'm not a chiv vet myself but I must say it is really nice to see the devs working to improve the game versus everything I have heard about chivalry. All your posts are very enjoyable or very informative and please keep up the good work man!

Baron 21 28
  • 18 Dec '18
 corvid_a

I like the moves you can do in chiv I think it looks fun. "Fights that look like fights" seems to be a motto for boring, systematized gameplay. I prefer a more laissez-faire approach to combat mechanics but it seems that argument was lost a long time ago. I'm a middling Mordhau player that barely played chiv so I won't comment on which has better animation.. but I think improving Mordhau animation should be a priority over fixing whatever gimmick is currently popular on duel servers

Knight 5096 6837
  • 18 Dec '18
 Humble Staff

I'm only here to say that rob is a fucking god, that's all.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 19 Dec '18
 Frise

@corvid_a said:
I like the moves you can do in chiv I think it looks fun. "Fights that look like fights" seems to be a motto for boring, systematized gameplay. I prefer a more laissez-faire approach to combat mechanics but it seems that argument was lost a long time ago. I'm a middling Mordhau player that barely played chiv so I won't comment on which has better animation.. but I think improving Mordhau animation should be a priority over fixing whatever gimmick is currently popular on duel servers

There's a difference between allowing creative and emergent plays, and not fixing broken tactics that ruin the combat at a high level.

Count 449 1186
  • 1
  • 19 Dec '18
 Hadeus

Watch at .5 speed and observe the wonderful animations.

324 864
  • 19 Dec '18
 Xatrian

That seems more like a speedhack or exploit of some kind than simple bad animations.

Empress 359 850
  • 1
  • 19 Dec '18
 Soulcatcher

Yeah, I don't know sometimes. Chivs wonky mechanics produce some absolutely hilarious situations. Mordhaus, not as much. Niether game is bad, or perfectly good, just different.

https://www.twitch.tv/nonprintingprinter/clip/SpookySpinelessPigJKanStyle?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

And the humor/hilarity is sometimes just as big of a part of the game in regards to enjoyment as good solid gameplay and realistic-y combat. It's a fine line I guess. And open to being interpreted differently based on peoples personal preferences and the way they enjoy a game.

shrug

176 454
  • 21 Dec '18
 Koda

@Jax said:
We're looking into removing jump-drags.

Please do this in a way that doesn't nerf jumping. Jumping over footdrags is so fun and risky and shouldn't be made even more rare :)

I'm sure y'all can figure something out about removing jumpdrags without nerfing jumps?

Duke 5477 13081
  • 21 Dec '18
 Jax — Community Manager

yeah. looking at changing when you can jump during attacks. still not set in stone so I won't say exactly how it's being implemented atm

Count 449 1186
  • 21 Dec '18
 Hadeus

@Koda said:

@Jax said:
We're looking into removing jump-drags.

Please do this in a way that doesn't nerf jumping. Jumping over footdrags is so fun and risky and shouldn't be made even more rare :)

I'm sure y'all can figure something out about removing jumpdrags without nerfing jumps?

I agree -
If you restrict the attackers jump input during early release-->release, the defender can still jump over footdrags :^)

Knight 528 3376
  • 22 Dec '18
 rob_owner

in case anyone is interested, that night I played there was a nice young man streaming. I clipped a few fights where i made myself an especially sour source on the eyes

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoyTawdryGooseBatChest

https://clips.twitch.tv/BoldReliableHedgehogRuleFive

https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientHeadstrongPlumTwitchRaid

https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientHeadstrongPlumTwitchRaid

https://clips.twitch.tv/AmorphousSmokyAniseKeepo

I also was curious and tried to make jump drags worked, it did not take very long

https://clips.twitch.tv/SlickNastyQuailOhMyDog

some of these i clipped wrong and end before you can see the 1 frame of death i was trying to cut it at

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafEmpathicMangoKappaClaus

https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoothHedonisticHedgehogAMPTropPunch

https://clips.twitch.tv/DifficultJollyTruffleNerfBlueBlaster

https://clips.twitch.tv/FilthyAcceptableChimpanzeeArsonNoSexy

vanilla trades