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Stab Keybinds

76 153
  • 2
  • 13 Dec '18
 intTobey

@Mittsies said:
It doesn't matter how hard you personally find 240 to be, it provides an inherent mechanical advantage.

What mechanical advantage, specifically? The pressing less buttons thing? That's an advantage yes, but one that is just good game design. It would be stupid to bind every movement angle to a different key, wouldn't it? That would take so many more keypresses to accomplish the same task that WSAD does.

To their credit, binds do provide a similar advantage, in that your attack input is just a keypress, requiring no extra movements or attention. This allows more of your consciousness to be applied to other things, like defense and footwork (as long as you don't have to remove fingers from WSAD to perform the attack).

That's cool and beneficial, but the main game-ruining advantage that binds have are that they also allow your view movements to be completely independent of your attacks, which in turn allows you to perform crazy, animation distorting aim changes without hindrance. This is the part I hate about binds. You simply can't do many of those movements as violently with 240 because part of your view control must be devoted to attack direction selection.

@Mittsies said:
Furthermore, you can use auto-hotkey to emulate a bind with any 240 angle. For instance, you could pick the most ugly-looking 240 overhead angle and make it so mousewheel down always performs that exact angle. Not only does this mean binds are essentially impossible to take out of the game, it further highlights the issues with 240 as a system.

Didn't know about this. I don't mess around with macros. But to clarify, I'm not asking that binds be removed from the game. That would hurt the population. I just wish they'd never been added. I have to live with it, but that's not gonna stop me from bitching about it.

@Mittsies said:
If you become comfortable enough with 240 that the control scheme doesn't hinder you anymore, then it's objectively better than binds.

So if you become skilled, you have an advantage - and this is bad?

Knight 366 630
  • 13 Dec '18
 Snake Skin

Im suprised the keybind that inverts the direction of attacks works for keybound attacks but doesnt work for mouse bound attacks.

76 153
  • 13 Dec '18
 intTobey

@Snake Skin said:
Im suprised the keybind that inverts the direction of attacks works for keybound attacks but doesnt work for mouse bound attacks.

Yeah, that seemed odd to me as well. Maybe I should make a suggestion thread.

Knight 1388 3163
  • 16 Dec '18
 Tim_Fragmagnet

my favorite is that left side stabs have more reach than right side stabs.

14 27
  • 16 Dec '18
 private_ho

Really? I'm pretty sure right side stabs have more range than left side stabs. Even though left stabs use 2 hands and right stabs use 1 hand.

1430 2175

I like upper right stabs because I feel they have the most application for hooking over or around someone's parry.

I occasionally start a right underhand then morph to the upper right stab while sliding left. Sometimes Ill get a head shot if they parry too low and too right.

Knight 1388 3163
  • 1
  • 17 Dec '18
 Tim_Fragmagnet

@private_ho said:
Really? I'm pretty sure right side stabs have more range than left side stabs. Even though left stabs use 2 hands and right stabs use 1 hand.

You're right, it is the right side stab. I haven't played in a while.
But yeah, more reach with no downside, since they're the same exact attack just played with different animations.

  • 1 Jan '19
 Moses
This comment was deleted.
Baron 1551 2087

@Jax said:
Extra angles allow more precision and removing them would reduce the freedom allowed.

The precision is pointless and the freedom an illusion. The only reason anybody thought 240 looked cool was because of the combat possibilities it opened up for directional play (that is currently absent from gameplay). So in place of cool directional combat, where you have to duck, dip, dodge and weave around blades and use actual skill when striking and blocking, we got timing based combat with a specifically directional based attack instead. was there even a drawing board?

I've always had 240 bound instead of binding my horizontal slashes. But after testing Bound slashes, It's clear the 240 cannot fill the same roll. (which is quite sad seeing as how it is the most basic and easy to perform attack) With 240 I lose a few milliseconds, a few millimeters to make sure I swing the right way. pushing it closer to the limit will always push you closer to swinging the wrong way completely.

Basically it's like you implemented the 240 to simplify the controls, but since it actually performs an entirely different function in combat, it's become yet another thing I'm forced to bind. IMO The game would be no worse off without it.

P.S. I have no fucking clue why the Alt button still doesn't reverse a 240 swing when the first time I watched the trailer it was obvious that when you are turning to your left but want to make a right swing, dur it's gonna cause you problems.

1430 2175

I just made the switch to binds, sure chambering's a bit harder but my ripostes are exactly what I want and I can do first and last frame hits much more successfully.

My gameplay is vastly better and Crippled is right: Whats the point in all those extra angles if 6 binds will easily chamber them and there is no such thing as directional play??? It's actually easier to mask your attack angle with the 6 binds and body contortion than any 240 angles that aren't bound and become harder to input while contorting and footworking. Waterfalls are rarely successful but it's only the highest overheads and lowest underhands that can perform them anyways.

240 is really cool. 240 is really pointless.

Count 887 3301
  • 4 Jan '19
 EatAtRedLobster

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I just made the switch to binds, sure chambering's a bit harder but my ripostes are exactly what I want and I can do first and last frame hits much more successfully.

101 175
  • 28 Apr '19
 Sektor

I'll just necro this to quote:

''So there it is: the word from on high subtly stating that binds are only in the game to give Chiv players a familiar control method.

The 240 system is the foundation of Mordhau combat. Binds corrupt everything.

Binds allow all of that contorting and spazzing, the ballet auditions that the devs wanted to avoid. Try doing all that with 240. Try even doing a fully accelerated lookdown overhead riposte; it's really hard. This is GOOD. Lookdown overhead ripostes are too easy to perform with binds for how potent they are. The same goes for many other ugly moves that are difficult to perform without binds.
"That it is easy to pick up and difficult to master-" Binds are easy to pick up, sure. But they aren't difficult to master. Only the 240 system fits that description. Binds greatly simplify offense.''

As a new player me and my friend who both joined late see this. 240 has no advantage over binds, in fact it puts you in a worse position. We do not want to switch to keybinds, so I guess we will stay with a handicap for now. Keybinds allow spazz animations and make things unreadable. Why don't you show that off to your official trailers? You promote the game in the trailers with a very clear showcase of 240 movement, clashes (who rarely happen nowdays) and fights that actually look like fights. In reality, this is not the case. The game suffers from the same shit that plague warband and chivalry, ground looking constantly to hit attacks faster or confuse your opponent in a very unnatural way and no punishment for camera movement. Countless has been the times in the last weeks that I play the game that players killed me or I killed players by not even looking at them. Keybinds literally ruin this. I can easily make macros with pre-feint and millisecond delays to never use the feint key aswell.

I have also seen a quote from Crush who says all you need is 1mm movements. Like, seriously? Did you ever wonder that maybe I do bigger movements and the 240 fucks up everything for me? Why should I adapt to the sensitivity you deem worthy of 240 and not have deadzones? Comfort is a crucial part of staying up to par to the enemy. Whoever says that 240 is as viable as keybinds is blatantly lying. It's not, I have over 2k hours in Warband, the combat is different but the fundamentals of movement and correct swinging when it comes to angles and direction match a lot. And all of this gets destroyed by keybinds. I have tried keybinds before a few days for like 5 hours straight in local matches, with a mouse that allows pressure calculation on buttons (which means I can click lmb for attacking and hold lmb for attack+feint) and the difference was vast. I racked up about 10 more kills that I usually do, and I'm still very average in the game.

Of course, chivalry players will call me out and rightfully so as a l2p issue or some jazz shit like that, but don't try to tell me 240 is as viable because its clearly not and it will not be. Keybinds have massive advantage mostly because of free-form camera and animation spazzing. And it won't be long before new players notice this aswell.

530 282
  • 28 Apr '19
 Christian2222

@Mittsies said:
While we're on the subject, just remove 240 entirely.
You'll still be able to angle your attacks with the mouse, it'll just be locked to the 6 primary angles.

How about lets not say stupid things? They already had this thread. They won't remove 240 because they are smart devs, and there is no reason to remove it.